Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans

Jonathan Ashley Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:02:20 -0700

While the word "citizen" appears quite often in the Constitution for theUnited States, it is never clearly defined.

If a person chose to move here from France in 1791, why would he nothave been part of "We the People"?


On 10/29/2010 10:53 AM, Keith In Tampa wrote:

That is one convoluted, and I might add, WRONG interpretationMichael. "The People" mean the Citizens of the United States. Notillegals, not, "The People of France", etc., etc., etc....Numerouscase law citations on this very premise, again, I'll come back to itmaybe tonight.

Keith

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:41 PM, MJ <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:



    Article III deals with the JUDICIARY.

    There you go again with that silliness about 'illegals'.
    Citizens relate (re: US Constitution) SPECIFICALLY as denoted.

    Items like -- for example -- Amendment  IV (for simplicity)

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
      papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures,
      shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon
      probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly
      describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to
      be seized.

    restrict the GOVERNMENT from action against PEOPLE -- regardless of
    whether they are Citizens, Visitors, have the Government's
    unconstitutional
    permission, etc.  It plainly LIMITS the Feds from doing as stated.

    Naturalization (or naturalisation), of course, is the acquisition of
    citizenship and nationality by somebody who was not a citizen or
    national of that country when he or she was born.
    Naturalization has NOTHING to do with entering/exiting.

    There was no claim that Citizens were something else.

    Regard$,
    --MJ

    I was about to say that I'd hate to live in a country
    where the law could mean whatever its rulers said
    it meant, when it occurred to me that I already do.
    -- Joseph Sobran




    At 01:28 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:

    Art. III referenced the Constitution and treaties, but was
    changed by the XI amendment.  Citizens do not refer to illegals
    that roam onto U.S. soil and do not become naturalized.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "MJ" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
    To: [email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:14:13 PM
    Subject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans


    This is becoming silly.  Have you actually READ the Constitution?

    Occurrences of 'Citizen'

    In Article III (describing JURISDICTION for the supreme Court):

      between a State and Citizens of another State; -- between Citizens
      of different States; -- between Citizens of the same State
    claiming Lands
      under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the
    Citizens
      thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

    In Article IV (ensuring reciprocity between States):

      The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges
      and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

    Amendment XI (more jurisdiction):

    The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to
    extend to
      any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one
    of the United
      States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects
    of any
      Foreign State.

    Dubiously Ratified Amendment XIV (aiding Lincoln's illusion):

      All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and
      subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United
    States and
      of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or
    enforce any law
      which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of
    the United
      States;

    Amendment XV (preventing voting disqualification by group):

    The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be
      denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on
    account of
      race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

    Amendment XIX (preventing voting disqualification by group)"

      The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be
    denied or
      abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

    Amendment XIV (preventing voting disqualification by group):

      The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any
      primary or other election for President or Vice President, for
    electors for
      President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in
      Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States
    or any
      State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

    Amendment XXVI (preventing voting disqualification by group):

      The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen
      years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged
    by the
      United States or by any State on account of age.


    The Constitution, of course, CREATED and LIMITS the Government it
    created.


    STILL do not know what the Bible has to do with anything.

    Regard$,
    --MJ

    The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal
    government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the
    State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be
    exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace,
    negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of
    taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers
    reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects
    which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives,
    liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order,
    improvement, and prosperity of the State. -- James Madison,
    Federalist Papers



    At 12:53 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:

        Look at Romans 1:26-27.  Also the Constitution and the
        amendments refer to citizens.  Citizens  are all persons born
        or naturalized in the U.S. and subject to the jurisdiction
        therein. Clearly it does not apply to illegals.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "MJ" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
        To: [email protected]
        <mailto:[email protected]>
        Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 12:01:43 PM
        Subject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans


        THIS does not answer the request.
        Someone will need to explain this silliness about 'legal' and
        'illegal' immigrants.  The US Constitution provides no power
        whatsoever for the Feds to extend or withhold permission for
        entry (or exit) into any of the Sovereign States.  Besides,
        'migration' is a natural right.
        Additionally, rights are inherent in Man's being -- not
        permissions as you imply.
        Not certain WHAT the Bible may have to do with anything.

        As an aside, do you have any problem/difficulty with the
        THEFT and SLAVERY promoted by both the Ds and Rs?

        Regard$,
        --MJ

        "Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one
        comes into the world with a right to his own person, which

includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will.This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by

        the Author of nature, because necessary for his own
        sustenance." --Thomas Jefferson


        At 11:42 AM 10/29/2010, you wrote:

            What rights do immigrants have unless they are legal?  In
            reference to the Bible have you read the verses on
            homosexuality?

----- Original Message -----From: "MJ" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 11:24:30 AMSubject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning

            Republicans

            Can you POINT me to a 'platform' or similar that suggests

such?Thanks in advance.Regard$,--MJ

            "Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in

his error." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

At 09:18 AM 10/29/2010, you wrote:>But it seems obvious that the biggest reason to voteDemocrat is to>take one good look at the crazies in the Grand OpressiveTea Party and>what they will do to oppresss LGBT people, as well as awhole slew of>demographic minority groups, including immigrants, Latinos,>African-Americans and women who have been raped orvictims of incest.>If you don't vote for the Democrats, you are opening thedoor for>bigoted hateful theocrats like the Fred Phelps Wesboro"Church" who>totally ignore Jesus' actual message of love, acceptanceand inclusion>and fail to know what their Bible really says.>The Republican Agenda is anti-American. Their number onepriority is>to obstruct and make The President of The United Statesfail. Welcome>to the Recorporate Party of Greed.>--Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.For options & help see

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