Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans

[MJ]

Naturalization has NOTHING to do with immigration.  Had the Founders desired to include immigration, the term would have been included.
People entering a Country, taking up residence, seeking jobs, etc. is NOT an invasion -- no wishing on your part will make this so.
At this point it is patently obvious that you have nothing and are merely shoveling shit.  You may as well proclaim that AIS5C1 PLUCKED to read: "Each House shall be the Judge" is your basis.

Yes, the Constitution is black and white ... yet you want to READ into it as you desire WHILE spewing fallacies at others (like Tommy) who do exactly like you.

Regard$,
--MJ

You can't reason somebody out of something they  weren't reasoned into. -- L. Neil Smith





At 07:09 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:

I don't know how it is that you think the Constitution doesn't address this.  The Constitution most certainly does address Immigration, and illegal immigration!
 
It's called naturalization, where Congress is vested with the power to craft such laws, and illegal immigration is called, "Invasion". 
 
Plain and simple.
 
See my post on this, all of the articles are listed in Article One, Section Eight.  The Naturalization is in either Clause Three or Four, and there are numerous Clauses addressing invasion, including one where the State has the DUTY  (See Arizona)  to stop invasion from illegal invaders into their State.
 
The Constitution is not a living, breathing document, as many Moonbats, (See Lil'MarxistMoonbatTommyTomTomForNews) suggests.....It's black and white, plain and simple. 
 


 
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Jonathan Ashley < jonathanashle...@lavabit.com> wrote:

And that is how things were until 1875 when the Supreme Court declared that regulation of US immigration is the responsibility of the Federal Government - despite the fact that immigration is not mentioned in the Constitution.

Our founding fathers had one intention and it took nearly one hundred years before the Supreme Court decided to arbitrarily change that intention.

Had it not been for the Supreme Court making law instead of upholding what the Constitution says, we would not be having discussions about illegal immigration.

On 10/29/2010 3:39 PM, Keith In Tampa wrote:

I think in 1791, under the circumstances that you describe, he would have been a citizen, and a part of, "We, The People".....

 

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Jonathan Ashley < jonathanashle...@lavabit.com> wrote:

That does not answer the question posed. If a person moved here from France in 1791 with no intention of returning to France and every intention of residing in Virginia, where does it say he is not a citizen of the United States? Where does it say he is not a member of the body of "We the People" living in the United States in 1791?

On 10/29/2010 3:15 PM, Keith In Tampa wrote:

"We The People, Of the United States Of America"  is pretty self explanatory.....

 

 

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Jonathan Ashley < jonathanashle...@lavabit.com> wrote:

While the word "citizen" appears quite often in the Constitution for the United States

, it is never clearly defined.

If a person chose to move here from France in 1791, why would he not have been part of "We the People"?

On 10/29/2010 10:53 AM, Keith In Tampa wrote:

That is one convoluted, and I might add, WRONG interpretation Michael.  "The People"  mean the Citizens of the United States.   Not illegals, not, "The People of France", etc., etc., etc....Numerous case law citations on this very premise, again, I'll come back to it maybe tonight.

 

Keith

 

 

On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:41 PM, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:

Article III deals with the JUDICIARY.

There you go again with that silliness about 'illegals'.

Citizens relate (re: US Constitution) SPECIFICALLY as denoted.

Items like -- for example -- Amendment  IV (for simplicity)

  The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,

  papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures,

  shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon

  probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly

  describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to

  be seized.

restrict the GOVERNMENT from action against PEOPLE -- regardless of

whether they are Citizens, Visitors, have the Government's unconstitutional

permission, etc.  It plainly LIMITS the Feds from doing as stated.

Naturalization (or naturalisation), of course, is the acquisition of

citizenship and nationality by somebody who was not a citizen or

national of that country when he or she was born.

Naturalization has NOTHING to do with entering/exiting.

There was no claim that Citizens were something else.

Regard$,

--MJ

I was about to say that I'd hate to live in a country

where the law could mean whatever its rulers said

it meant, when it occurred to me that I already do.

-- Joseph Sobran

At 01:28 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:

Art. III referenced the Constitution and treaties, but was changed by the XI amendment.  Citizens do not refer to illegals that roam onto U.S. soil and do not become naturalized.

----- Original Message -----

From: "MJ" <micha...@america.net>

To: politicalforum@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:14:13 PM

Subject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans

This is becoming silly.  Have you actually READ the Constitution?

Occurrences of 'Citizen'

In Article III (describing JURISDICTION for the supreme Court):

  between a State and Citizens of another State; -- between Citizens

  of different States; -- between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands

  under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens

  thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

In Article IV (ensuring reciprocity between States):

  The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges

  and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

Amendment XI (more jurisdiction):

  The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to

  any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United

  States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any

  Foreign State.

Dubiously Ratified Amendment XIV (aiding Lincoln's illusion):

  All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and

  subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and

  of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law

  which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United

  States;

Amendment XV (preventing voting disqualification by group):

  The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be

  denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of

  race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Amendment XIX (preventing voting disqualification by group)"

  The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or

  abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

Amendment XIV (preventing voting disqualification by group):

  The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any

  primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for

  President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in

  Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any

  State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

Amendment XXVI (preventing voting disqualification by group):

  The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen

  years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the

  United States or by any State on account of age.

The Constitution, of course, CREATED and LIMITS the Government it created.

STILL do not know what the Bible has to do with anything.

Regard$,

--MJ

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. -- James Madison, Federalist Papers

At 12:53 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:

Look at Romans 1:26-27.  Also the Constitution and the amendments refer to citizens.  Citizens  are all persons born or naturalized in the U.S. and subject to the jurisdiction therein. Clearly it does not apply to illegals.

----- Original Message -----

From: "MJ" <micha...@america.net>

To: politicalforum@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 12:01:43 PM

Subject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans

THIS does not answer the request.

Someone will need to explain this silliness about 'legal' and 'illegal' immigrants.  The US Constitution provides no power whatsoever for the Feds to extend or withhold permission for entry (or exit) into any of the Sovereign States.  Besides, 'migration' is a natural right.

Additionally, rights are inherent in Man's being -- not permissions as you imply.

Not certain WHAT the Bible may have to do with anything.

As an aside, do you have any problem/difficulty with the THEFT and SLAVERY promoted by both the Ds and Rs?

Regard$,

--MJ

"Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will.  This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by the Author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance." --Thomas Jefferson

At 11:42 AM 10/29/2010, you wrote:

What rights do immigrants have unless they are legal?  In reference to the Bible have you read the verses on homosexuality?

----- Original Message -----

From: "MJ" <micha...@america.net>

To: politicalforum@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 11:24:30 AM

Subject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans

Can you POINT me to a 'platform' or similar that suggests such?

Thanks in advance.

Regard$,

--MJ

"Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error.

" -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

At 09:18 AM 10/29/2010, you wrote:

>But it seems obvious that the biggest reason to vote Democrat is to

>take one good look at the crazies in the Grand Opressive Tea Party and

>what they will do to oppresss LGBT people, as well as a whole slew of

>demographic minority groups, including immigrants, Latinos,

>African-Americans and women who have been raped or victims of incest.

>If you don't vote for the Democrats, you are opening the door for

>bigoted hateful theocrats like the Fred Phelps Wesboro "Church" who

>totally ignore Jesus' actual message of love, acceptance and inclusion

>and fail to know what their Bible really says.

>The Republican Agenda is anti-American. Their number one priority is

>to obstruct and make The President of The United States fail. Welcome

>to the Recorporate Party of Greed.

>

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ 

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Your personal email. Anytime, anywhere.

Ridiculously affordable at $19.95. No contracts.

http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html

--

Your remedy is in the courts - learn civil litigation with Jurisdictionary®

I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal Government

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.

Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be governed are weak.

"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really happening. What

separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior public relations."

- Marc Stevens

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that cannot be."

- Thomas Jefferson

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Your personal email. Anytime, anywhere.

Ridiculously affordable at $19.95. No contracts.

http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html

--

Your remedy is in the courts - learn civil litigation with Jurisdictionary®

I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal Government

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.

Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be governed are weak.

"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really happening. What

separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior public relations."

- Marc Stevens

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that cannot be."

- Thomas Jefferson

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Your personal email. Anytime, anywhere.

Ridiculously affordable at $19.95. No contracts.

http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html

--

Your remedy is in the courts - learn civil litigation with Jurisdictionary®

I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal Government

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.

Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be governed are weak.

"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really happening. What

separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior public relations."

- Marc Stevens

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that cannot be."

- Thomas Jefferson

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

 

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
 
* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
 
* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.