Here is the 1795 Act, which, of course, says NOTHING about immigration: http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/naturalization/naturalization_text.html
Naturalization, of course, is a path to 'Citizenship' and has NOTHING to do with immigration.
AIS8C3 has NOTHING to do with immigration. In fact, as originally understood, interstate "commerce" consisted only of the transfer of ownership and possession, for a valuable consideration, of tangible commodities, from a party in one state to a party in another state. It did not include primary production, such as farming, hunting, fishing, or mining. It did not include services, securities, or communication. Nor did it include manufacturing, transport, retail sales, possession, or use of anything. It did not include anything that might have a "substantial effect" on commerce, or the operations of parties not directly related to the actual transfers of ownership and possession.
AIS8C1 conveys a LIMITED Power to 'tax'. You NOW want to extract the limitations and declare them a power unto themselves.
Regard$,
--MJ
You can't reason somebody out of something they
weren't reasoned into. -- L. Neil Smith
At 08:26 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote:
Hey Jonathan!--
I switched threads on ya, but I wanted to come back to what Michael wrote earlier.
Uhm...I don't think that is the clause that you are looking for there Jonathan...<Grin>!!
Two of the clauses that I was referencing earlier, are these:
Article One, Section Eight, Clause 3:
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
and.
Article One, Section Eight, Clause 3:
"To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States";
Clearly, we all know, (accept for Lil'MarxistMoonbatTommyTomTomForNews) that the Congress has the ability to regulate damn near everything under the Commerce Clause, or at least the Courts have interpreted it as such. There has been some reversals of this doctrine, with the Lopez Case and Sullivan v. Louisiana, but the Congress has wide latitude.
The Congress has regulated immigration, including the ability to immigrate into our Nation, since 1796, when it passed the "Uniform Rule of Naturalization of 1795".
What we have now, is those socialists and Marxists, and a few who are just downright ignorant of our laws, (Again, See Lil'MarxistMoonbatTommyTomTomForNews) especially our Constitution, who have usurped power and corrupted our Congress, but I won't dwell on this tonight, hopefully we have a new start here next week.
There is also Article 1 Section 8, Clause 1; which states in part:
"The Congress shall have the duty to.....[P]rovide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"
Of course, this Clause shoots Michael's whole theory down, that the Preamble is nothing but fluff, and, as Michael stated, "There is no assign of Power contained within this 'mission statement' -- implied, inferred nor stated."
Obviously, there is, and this was pointed out to Michael on May 11th of this year:
http://groups.google.com/group/politicalforum/browse_thread/thread/db218d176a3fea96
With regard to your "invasion" definition....I think that definition is still accurate. I would submit that there are numbers of illegal immigrants who have the intent to cause harm, damage and some have the intention of trying to cause a catastrophe, and/or they intend on trying to force the United States into ceding a portion of the Southwestern United States back to Mexico, or form some third world Nation-State. I think this qualifies as being invaded, and we have not only a right, but a duty to protect our borders from this invasion.
....
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Jonathan Ashley < [email protected]> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 2:14 PM, Keith In Tampa <[email protected] > wrote:
- Keith,
- You are stretching the definition of "invasion" beyond belief.
- 1828 definition:
- INVASION, n. s as z. [L. invasio, from invado. See Invade.]
- 1. A hostile entrance into the possessions of another; particularly, the entrance of a hostile army into a country for the purpose of conquest or plunder, or the attack of a military force. The north of England and south of Scotland were for centuries subject to invasion, each from the other. The invasion of England by William the Norman, was in 1066.
- 2. An attack on the rights of another; infringement or violation.
- 3. Attack of a disease; as the invasion of the plague, in Egypt.
- However, in re-reading the Constitution, I did find the following in Article I, Section 9:
- "The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person."
- So it appears the Supreme Court was correct in 1875. I stand corrected.
- Yes, they do. Especially 3 and 4. The remainder of the clauses deal with illegal immigration, which is, "invasion".
- As for the rest of your points, I will be back later.
- Keith
- On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:56 PM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote:
- The US Constitution provides the Executive Branch and the Legislative Branch with a number of inherent powers, to include the enforcement of immigration laws. For starters, let’s begin with the Preamble:
- “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America”.
- We the People (of State unknown until ratification) in order to accomplish these six (6) goals establish THIS Constitution.
- There is no assign of Power contained within this 'mission statement' -- implied, inferred nor stated.
- They will waste but little time on the attempt to cover the act by the preamble to the Constitution, it being contrary to every acknowledged rule of construction to set up this part of an instrument in opposition to the plain meaning expressed in the body of the instrument. A preamble usually contains the general motives or reason for the particular regulations or measures which follow it, and is always understood to be explained and limited by them. In the present instance, a contrary interpretation would have the inadmissible effect of rendering nugatory or improper every part of the Constitution which succeeds the preamble. -- Jonathan Elliot _Debates on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution_
- the Constitution mandates that the Congress (and the President) protect American sovereignty and the American People. Let’s begin with Article One, Section Eight, which deals with the Powers of the Congress, and all of these Sections are applicable :
- Clause 1: “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
- Clause 3: “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes”;
- Clause 4: “To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States”;
- Clause 11: “To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water”;
- Clause 15: “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions”
- NONE of these Powers have *anything* to do with immigration.
- Clause 20; “To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress”;
- Which has NOTHING to do with immigration.
- Even Article One, Section Ten, Clause Three gives the States the right to defend themselves with the invasion by illegal aliens:
- No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.
- NOTHING here about "illegal aliens" (whatever that means) OR immigration.
- I am rushed for time right now, but I will pick up on this thread later, and we’ll touch upon the other inherent powers by the Congress, and delve into the Executive Branch’s ability to stop the invasion and detriment to our Nation that illegal aliens pose.
- In other words LATER you will seek to 'make up' some justification for what simply does not exist.
- A cursory amount of research will reveal that "immigration" was a USURPATION ... first by the court in the very late 19th Century (paralleling the rise of the Nanny State) and then with seemingly innocuous requirements by the Congress in the 1920s (as the Nanny State begins to become firmly entrenched).
- The Constitution simply does NOT support this nonsensical Statist tyranny.
- Legitimate Government is to SECURE Natural Rights -- such as the right to migration -- not to tyrannically quash them.
- Regard$,
- --MJ
- Modern nationalism and collectivism have, by the restriction of migration, perhaps come nearest to the "servile state." …Man can hardly be reduced more to a mere wheel in the clockwork of the national collectivist state that being deprived of his freedom to move.... Feeling that he belongs now to his nation, body and soul, he will be more easily subdued to the obedient state serf which nationalist and collectivist governments
- demand. -- Wilhelm Röpke
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