Charlie Coleman wrote: > At 08:10 PM 2/21/2008 -0300, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: >> Charlie Coleman wrote: >> >>> And I think there's another aspect to it. God is also Just. And just like >>> God's Love, people don't understand his sense of Justice. >> Let's see, you are also "people" (unless you believe you are superior to >> the rest), so how come you do understand his justice. And if you don't, >> then what the hell are you preaching about? > > I suppose that phrasing wasn't very good. What I was saying is that God is > Just and He is forgiving.
How would YOU know. If he is so above us all there's no way you can know that. If you CAN know that then he is not that big. > >>> Clearly, when we (mankind) made the wrong choice in the beginning He >> would have been >>> justified to wipe us out. At least according to "our" understanding of >> justice. >> >> Maybe to YOUR understanding. Whatever mischief my daughter could do it >> would NEVER occur me to "wipe" her out. Education, Charlie. You educate >> by graduating punishment, what would someone learn if he is "wiped" out? > >>> But He didn't. Perhaps that was an expression of his Love. >> At least if his love is half the love I profess my daughter (remember we >> are his sons(?)). > > Didn't you just say the same thing I did? Hmmm. Not at all. Read it again. > > Anyway, you can't really claim to be His son on 1 hand and then claim to be > God yourself on the other. When I claim to be his son I'm playing by your rules and showing you the inconsistencies. When I claim I am God I'm just making fun of you (do you think God has a sense of humour? or is he just a regular asshole?). > >>> When He lets someone choose their way into Hell, to me, that is an >> expression of >>> his Justice >> Justice or not I would never let my daughter choose her way into hell. >> Maybe I have more love than justice? Maybe my love is stronger than >> God's? Oh... so many doubts! > > Hard to discuss this I suppose because you don't believe in heaven or hell. > So it's easy to say you'd never let your daughter go to hell. But would you > let anyone go to hell? Even that guy who raped your daughter? Were you the > one that said you'd kill the offender right off... you'd accept the > consequences, but you'd still kill him? That doesn't sound very loving. If I were God then the rapist would also be my son and I'd never let him go to hell by committing rape, I'd educate him and watch over him so he would never be able to put me in the position of judging him for rape. When I say I'd kill the offender I mean it as a mere human being. Likewise if we are talking about law and how should society behave I would never condone death penalty. But that is when I'm talking about what society should do. Me as a human being might decide to kill the offender. Don't know if I'm being clear enough. > >>> Non-believers and believers alike project their own attitudes and >>> understanding and make claims about God, or lack thereof (just like I did >>> above). So, of course, the natural outcome of such thinking is to believe >>> we could do a much better job of running the universe if we were >>> omnipotent. Yep, prideful to the hilt. However, a believer (specifically a >>> Christian believer) will swallow their pride, non-believers will not. >> So the secret is to swallow? Either you swallow or else...... >> Oh, God is sooooo loving. > > LOL, I guess it's another one of those sayings that doesn't translate well. > Basically, swallow your pride in the US means to be humble. And regarding > Christians, it means to submit your will to God's. Doesn't that make sense > to you? None at all. Why would he give me free will in order to submit it to him. Sounds either stupid or sick... or like the scam religion is. > Just like you expect your daughter to submit to your will You are soooo wrong. I don't expect my daughter to submit. I wouldn't love her as much if she submitted to my will. She's been raised to be independent and to question things, it's been a bit uncomfortable at times being a parent but the result is worth it a thousand times. Of course if she's about to jump over a cliff then I'll grab her and hold her till she comes to her senses, but that has never happened yet. BTW, if she had Lucifer's inclinations and I couldn't convince her to curb her ambition then I'd rather give her my position than banish her from my presence for ever. But I guess I'm too soft to be God? > , why > wouldn't you think God would do the same. As I said, I expect my daughter to make her own decisions. > But even then it's not the same. > Of course this is hard to discuss since you don't believe in God. But you > have displayed what I've been talking about regarding pride. You think you > would do things better. You project your idea of how things should be in > the world and decided that since it's not that way, God can't exist. And you project your idea of how you think God should be, but forget that God is whatever he chooses to be, not what is convenient to your philosophy. Besides religion necessarily forgets an important issue. If God created the world and the world is change, and God created us in his image and we change, then God must necessarily change. So why would scripts two thousand years old tell you anything about who God is NOW? _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
