@Greg - sure -- that nicely describes the class of user task that popups are designed to support. I don't believe the audience for the NuVoc portal have that sort of task. Ever. How often will a novice J user eyeball the page looking-aside at rank for multiple primitives? Won't s/he rather eyeball the page looking solely for a given primitive to click (usually with the browser's "find" facility) -- rather less often looking for a name, like Raze? (...and who, except a J-er, has a use for the word "Raze", I ask you?) I agree with Henry. Novice users have no awareness of the importance of rank info -- it is invisible to them -- and they don't go looking for it. They need to be hit in the eye with it. Where better than on the primitive's own page?
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 11:31 PM, greg heil <ghei...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ian > > >A new page is generally a much higher cognitive load, and takes a lot > longer for the layout engine to do its work. i have used popup's very > successfully to detail desc tags in SVG documents. One leaves the page > intact, so it never shifts and the users cognitive load is not drastically > changed. One can mouse over (or pen by) objects and a popup window changes > w/o affecting the viewed main page. > > greg > ~krsnadas.org > > -- > > from: Ian Clark earthspo...@gmail.com > to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> > date: 21 January 2014 15:20 > subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released > > >Why are we considering tooltips and popups... what task do they support? > ...what's their advantage here? Why can't the target page be its own > "popup"? > > -- > > from: greg heil ghei...@gmail.com > to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> > date: 21 January 2014 15:15 > subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released > > Ian > > >i expect a controller of authentication like moinmoin would not be easy > to circumvent:) However another, more general, model would be to have > popups. > > >If one had a single popup at a location place able by the user, and a > click to initiate it (to get around popup sandboxing issues) it would not > be distracting. > > >It could also be configurable - not just ranks but other info on > underlying tokens. > > greg > ~krsnadas.org > > -- > > from: Ian Clark earthspo...@gmail.com > to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> > date: 21 January 2014 15:00 > subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released > > >@Brian - you speak for me too. I think Oleg's scheme is the easiest mod > *of that page* that can be done, but it's not so pretty. I'd thought of a > parallel page, which you could make appear with a click and back again. > > >My preference is for Henry's proposal, which I've mashed-up in: > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Voctest/eq_iac2 I hate tool tips anyway. > They never work for me cos I use a graphic tablet, not a mouse, and my pen > wavers. It'll be fast enough for me to click thru to the J Dic and back > again. > > -- > > from: Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com > to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> > date: 21 January 2014 14:47 > subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released > > Ian, > > >I see what you have done there: added the verb ranks to their names. I > like it except that it is butt ugly relative to the original clean page. > That may not be a reason to not add the info, but I sort of wonder, > especially if this page is to "sell" J to new users. > > Does anyone know how to put tooltips into such a page? > > -- > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:45 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > @Brian -- maybe it doesn't need a tooltip...? > > >It's not to hard to add the rank info to the table itself, in the way > Oleg suggests. > > I've temporarily modified http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVoc to show > how. > > -- > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >I can't see how that tooltip is created either. It seems to be builtin to > the utility: <<WikiConfigHelp>> > > >Oleg made an attempt at a rank table... > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Essays/Rank%20Table ...would a link to > that be enough for now? > > -- > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Brian Schott <schott.brian@gmail.comwrote: > > >I am replying to my own post because I want my original specification to > be included, even though I like Henry's suggestion, also. Henry's > suggestion will change each verb page of NuVoc, and mine is directed solely > to the first page. I think tool-tip information on the first page would > mostly help old-timers, but I think it would be unobtrusive and would not > hinder beginners. I thought it amounts to just adding a `title="..."` > element to each verb's primitive, but I forgot that the wiki uses > moinmoin's markup, not html, so I don't really know if a tooltip is > possible. I did find a page that has a tooltip, but I could not understand > how it was created. > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/HelpOnAccessControlLists?highlight=%28tooltip%29 > > -- > > On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Brian Schott <schott.brian@gmail.comwrote: > > Ian, > > That is amazing. Thank you for that great resource. > > >I don't know if I dare ask the following, but, here goes. Is there any > way to add a feature -- I think it's called a tool-tip -- to the main page > which would show the rank of each verb when someone hovers over the > primitive? If so, would other folks use such a feature? > > -- > (B=) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
