Ian >One can easily keep the sparseness of the nuvoc page. Tooltips are implemented >by the browser on title tags having both mouse over and mouse out >functionality hardwired. With a popup one can be much more creative and one >does not need to destroy their contents on mouseout.
>Tooltips usually have a delay in them presumably to help see the underlying >content. With popups one is not so restricted. >In nuVoc you have a set of words as entrees for each primitive. What if that >is not the aspect the user is looking for? One could have in the popup other >words that sometimes apply to the primitive, or synonyms etc. Eg for raze, >de-structure. >One could vastly decrease the times when a user has to turn away from the main >page - unnecessarily. Ie only go when their is a genuine hit. greg ~krsnadas.org -- from: Henry Rich henryhr...@nc.rr.com to: programm...@jsoftware.com date: 21 January 2014 16:23 subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released >I agree with Brian that the ranks on the NuVoc main page are distracting. >But I love what Ian did on the verb page for = . That seems just right: it >describes the rank, and suggests the importance of the rank concept. >Ian, when you want help filling in the stubs for the descriptions of rank, >tell us. >Glancing at =, I would put in a See Also for -: . Is the NuVoc project open >to general editing? -- from: Ian Clark earthspo...@gmail.com to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> date: 21 January 2014 15:54 subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released >@Greg - sure -- that nicely describes the class of user task that popups are >designed to support. I don't believe the audience for the NuVoc portal have >that sort of task. Ever. >How often will a novice J user eyeball the page looking-aside at rank for >multiple primitives? Won't s/he rather eyeball the page looking solely for a >given primitive to click (usually with the browser's "find" facility) -- >rather less often looking for a name, like Raze? (...and who, except a J-er, >has a use for the word "Raze", I ask you?) >I agree with Henry. Novice users have no awareness of the importance of rank >info -- it is invisible to them -- and they don't go looking for it. They need >to be hit in the eye with it. Where better than on the primitive's own page? -- from: greg heil ghei...@gmail.com to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> date: 21 January 2014 15:31 subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released Ian >A new page is generally a much higher cognitive load, and takes a lot longer >for the layout engine to do its work. i have used popup's very successfully to >detail desc tags in SVG documents. One leaves the page intact, so it never >shifts and the users cognitive load is not drastically changed. One can mouse >over (or pen by) objects and a popup window changes w/o affecting the viewed >main page. greg ~krsnadas.org -- from: Ian Clark earthspo...@gmail.com to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> date: 21 January 2014 15:20 subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released >Why are we considering tooltips and popups... what task do they support? >...what's their advantage here? Why can't the target page be its own "popup"? -- from: greg heil ghei...@gmail.com to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> date: 21 January 2014 15:15 subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released Ian >i expect a controller of authentication like moinmoin would not be easy to >circumvent:) However another, more general, model would be to have popups. >If one had a single popup at a location place able by the user, and a click to >initiate it (to get around popup sandboxing issues) it would not be >distracting. >It could also be configurable - not just ranks but other info on underlying >tokens. greg ~krsnadas.org -- from: Ian Clark earthspo...@gmail.com to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> date: 21 January 2014 15:00 subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released >@Brian - you speak for me too. I think Oleg's scheme is the easiest mod *of >that page* that can be done, but it's not so pretty. I'd thought of a parallel >page, which you could make appear with a click and back again. >My preference is for Henry's proposal, which I've mashed-up in: >http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Voctest/eq_iac2 I hate tool tips anyway. They >never work for me cos I use a graphic tablet, not a mouse, and my pen wavers. >It'll be fast enough for me to click thru to the J Dic and back again. -- from: Brian Schott schott.br...@gmail.com to: Programming forum <programm...@jsoftware.com> date: 21 January 2014 14:47 subject: Re: [Jprogramming] The Accessible Dictionary released Ian, >I see what you have done there: added the verb ranks to their names. I like it >except that it is butt ugly relative to the original clean page. That may not >be a reason to not add the info, but I sort of wonder, especially if this page >is to "sell" J to new users. Does anyone know how to put tooltips into such a page? -- On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:45 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: @Brian -- maybe it doesn't need a tooltip...? >It's not to hard to add the rank info to the table itself, in the way Oleg >suggests. I've temporarily modified http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/NuVoc to show how. -- On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Ian Clark <earthspo...@gmail.com> wrote: >I can't see how that tooltip is created either. It seems to be builtin to the >utility: <<WikiConfigHelp>> >Oleg made an attempt at a rank table... >http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Essays/Rank%20Table ...would a link to that be >enough for now? -- On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Brian Schott <schott.br...@gmail.com wrote: >I am replying to my own post because I want my original specification to be >included, even though I like Henry's suggestion, also. Henry's suggestion will >change each verb page of NuVoc, and mine is directed solely to the first page. >I think tool-tip information on the first page would mostly help old-timers, >but I think it would be unobtrusive and would not hinder beginners. I thought >it amounts to just adding a `title="..."` element to each verb's primitive, >but I forgot that the wiki uses moinmoin's markup, not html, so I don't really >know if a tooltip is possible. I did find a page that has a tooltip, but I >could not understand how it was created. http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/HelpOnAccessControlLists?highlight=%28tooltip%29 -- On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 11:45 PM, Brian Schott <schott.br...@gmail.com wrote: Ian, That is amazing. Thank you for that great resource. >I don't know if I dare ask the following, but, here goes. Is there any way to >add a feature -- I think it's called a tool-tip -- to the main page which >would show the rank of each verb when someone hovers over the primitive? If >so, would other folks use such a feature? -- (B=) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
