Once properly typeset, there is no problem discerning what is code and what is narrative, whether it's J or APL. APL385 sees to that.
However the typesetter's job entails identifying and checking code and verifying it hasn't been munged, eg smart-quoted. Somehow MS Word seems capable of munging J code a lot. I don't know what causes it (copy/paste? Import from HTML?) but I know what it hits: instances of <: and <. which can truncate whole phrases. Papers submitted to Vector cannot be relied on, alas, to delineate the J code clearly, or correctly if done at all. Often there is no delineation, simply because J is ascii-only and authors somehow see it as unimportant to set it in a recognisable style or font. Whereas in-line APL has to be set in the correct font--and authors can be relied upon to do that correctly. At least the track record is better. APL expressions have better syntactic cues as to whether the expression is complete (eg balancing brackets [..]) and never end with punctuation, unless it's a balanced parenthesis or quote. With J it is hard to tell the end of an expression, even in preformatted code blocks, and one has often to puzzle over whether a line has been spilled or whether it's meant to be two lines. Adrian and Gill Smith, who have typeset a lot of editions of Vector, will tell you they've always had disproportionate trouble with J code. In the course of Vector archiving, I too have had to handle several Vector articles containing J, not just APWJ... and I can corroborate their experience. It is far, far easier to typeset an APL article than a J one. This of course may be a problem which will lessen when I gain as much facility in reading J as I have with APL. If I ever do. Ian On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Roger Hui <[email protected]> wrote: > I am very surprised by this. Why should in-line J > be any harder than in-line APL, since the J alphabet > (7-bit ASCII) is a subset of ⎕av ? (At least the Dyalog ⎕av.) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ian Clark <[email protected]> > Date: Saturday, May 30, 2009 12:42 > Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] Italic Fonts? > To: Programming forum <[email protected]> > >> Watching this with interest, due to my typesetting task of "At Play >> With J" Edn 2. (See JChat). >> >> It's the considered opinion of BAA Vector typesetters (not just me) >> that (in-line) J is a swine to typeset. APL is relatively benign. >> Periods and colons are unmistakable. A-Z and numerals are sufficiently >> different from the narrative fonts in use by Vector (Book Antiqua). >> There's 50 years of experience with in-line APL. >> >> I haven't seen a proposal yet for a J font which overcomes the >> problems. APWJ Edn1 & 2 uses APL385 Unicode for J code as well >> as APL, >> to recruit some of the subtle benefits of in-line APL. This is based >> on Comic Sans. I myself when editing the definitive Word >> document have >> an in-line-J style with a yellow background. The colour is removed >> just prior to generating the camera-ready PDF. We're tempted to leave >> the colour in the PDF -- where it will come out mid-grey. >> >> Alas, incoming source material often lacks clear delineation of the >> in-line J code -- or if present it can't be trusted. It's a >> compounding factor that the back-tick used by Moinmoin to delineate >> in-line J is also a valid J character. >> >> Ian Clark >> >> >> 2009/5/30 Björn Helgason <[email protected]>: >> > =. >> > It could be an idea to show the operations with very large >> fonts and >> > separated by blanks in teaching material so the DOTS will >> stand out well >> > >> > 2009/5/30 Devon McCormick <[email protected]> >> > >> >> On the other hand, it would be nice to have a display font >> for J with the >> >> small "dot" characters (period and colon) more prominently >> emphasized.>> >> >> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Roger Hui >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > I believe that "The Design of J", if it had been written, >> >> > would have frowned on such font tricks, having learned >> >> > from the bitter experience with the special characters >> >> > in APL. >> >> > >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Devon McCormick, CFA >> >> ^me^ at acm. >> >> org is my >> >> preferred e-mail >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------- >> >> For information about J forums see >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm>> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur >> > Fugl&Fiskur ehf, >> > Þerneyjarsundi 23, Hraunborgum >> > Po Box 127,801 Selfoss , >> > t-póst: [email protected] >> > gsm: +3546985532 >> > Landslags og skrúðgarðagerð, gröfuþjónusta >> > http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming >> > >> > >> > Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari >> einfaldleikans> >> > góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum >> > >> /|_ .------------------------------ >> -----. >> > ,' .\ >> / | Með léttri lund >> verður | >> > ,--' _,' | >> Dagurinn í >> dag | >> > / >> / | Enn betri en >> gærdagurinn | >> > ( -. >> | `-------------------- >> ---------------' >> > | ) >> | (\_ _/) >> > (`-. '--.) >> (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ >> > `. )----' >> (")_(") ☃☠ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
