On Tue Aug 17 09:30:00 2010, Candide Kemmler wrote:
On 16 Aug 2010, at 16:00, Dave Cridland wrote:
> On Sun Aug 15 12:21:15 2010, Candide Kemmler wrote:
>> I'm very interested in the PEP xep, in particular in combination
with the User Activity XEP. However, I have a few remarks about the
specification as it is. Also, maybe it is just me, but I can't seem
to find any meaningful implementation of PEP among existing clients
and servers. The best I could do is with tigase and psi: I enabled
the "Publish tunes" in the psi client and I could indeed see that
the xml was pushed to another client in the XML console. But that's
about it: an XML message in a debugging console. I think pep is
pretty cool and I wonder why it's not given a bit more attention
from implementors.
> I think it depends on the client. I personally find Gajim is
doing very well here, publishing and displaying information as the
"rich presence" it was intended to be.
>
Unfortunately, it turned out to be a real pain to try to run Gajim
on my Mac, so I will have to trust your word for it :(
Well, I think Psi does display things like Tune and Mood in places,
too.
>> Now to something more important: as I understand it publishing
activities is an all-or-nothing option: subscribers can optionally
filter out activities they are not interested in, but I cannot
myself choose which activities I'd like to share with a specific
friend or group of friends. That's too bad: I was thinking of
activities as a way to share statistics - sports statistics for
example, and I don't want to potentially bother everyone with these
statistics (or force them to filter them out). Another use would be
for me to share some bad habit, like alcool, smoking or drug use
for example, while seeking support from a (potentially anonymous)
group of people who share the habit. In that case, I obviously
wouldn't even want others to know that I have that kind of
behaviour.
> Well, the activity node *can* be filtered out to only specific
people, but it's not often a feature available in the server -
changing the access model and configuration of the PEP node will
allow this.
>
As I understand it, pubsub allows several access models for nodes,
one of them being for example "whitelist". Yes, but that still
means that everyone can _see_ the node, hence anyone would see that
I'm tracking, let's say, my eating habits, and I don't want that.
The problem is that nodes are discoverable, yes. What you need is a
configuration button that changes whether nodes are discoverable by
those without permission to use the node. I've argued that we need
something similar for MUC, too.
>> My third remark is on statistics: aside from the type of
activity, there's a lot of additional info that users are likely to
be wanting to track, if they bother to log their activity in the
first place: let's mention: duration of an exercising session,
amount spent on a meal, title of book being read, etc... It would
be great to allow people to add such information.
> I don't think there's anything preventing you from adding extra
information there, except that you may well not want to receive all
that information.
>
> I do quite like the notion of advertising the book I'm reading,
for instance, but I wouldn't put that in User Activity, I'd put
that somewhere else - much like User Tune isn't bundled into
Activity.
Well then, that opens up for a whole infinite list of XEPs, one for
every kind of activity. That's essentially the problem I'm trying
to solve: IMO "Personal Eventing Protocol" should allow people to
state all sorts of events that are affecting their lives, according
to _them_. The key word here is probably semantics. There must be a
way for users to create their own semantics for events they deem
enough important for them to track. I'm thinking along the lines of
_basic_ semantic web stuff, like: users should be able to create
statement types, like say: "reading" [book_title] [book_author]?
[isbn]?, or "ran" [distance] "miles", etc... then share the
statement types so other user can use them as well if they want to.
No, PEP is a very simple framework for allowing additional streams of
events about (typically) a person.
You want, firstly, something closer to pubsub-onna-jid - ie, you want
configurable nodes, access-models, etc.
Secondly, you then need to establish a well-known node for each
category of information. At the least, you need this to establish
differentiated access control, but you also need it to allow
selectivity of the information stream by the consumer.
You seem to be arguing for an additional method to do this beyond
PEP/PubSub's innate ability.
Dave.
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