On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Thomas G. Willis<[email protected]> wrote: > > I agree too. If Django supported sqlalchemy as well as it does it's > own ORM I would likely be using it. But it seems like the price of all > the cool stuff Django offers is living with their ORM. I don't know > how this spins in favor of pylons though. It seems to me that TG > should be more concerned with keeping up/competing with the Jone's. > > Pylons to me almost seems like Spring for the Web. My understanding of > Spring is very light but it seems to me that the goal of loose > coupling, or rather, as much coupling as YOU deem necessary is it's > strength. Maybe Paste is responsible for that and Pylons is an MVC > framework built on top of that? > http://static.springsource.org/spring/docs/2.0.x/reference/mvc.html
A lot of frameworks are doing more or less the same thing. This is one of the reasons it's hard to say why Pylons is "better" from a user perspective or killer-app perspective. I said earlier my favorite advantage of Pylons: "modularity, which provides flexibility for the future, because you don't know what you'll need in the future". Some people objected that this is irrelevant to a newbie looking for a framework, or a company nervous about using anything except the top 3 mentioned in InfoWeek. But it's why *I* chose Pylons, and there are at least a few other people looking for the same. The WSGI type developers all work closely together now. Twisted and Django are more detached, but among the others there's a lot of sharing ideas and implementations, even with Zope (via Repoze). So the Pylons developers aren't just thinking "Pylons" but "WSGI" and "Python". So what distinguishes Pylons is not being totally unique, but in being the "first" in some things, its preference for Routes-style dispatching, the magic globals (love them or not), etc. So, one could write a killer CMS or bugtracker in Pylons. But will it ever be as good as Plone? Will it not be ported to TurboGears and web.py soon after it comes out? After all, the frameworks do more or less the same thing in different ways. SQLAlchemy is useful in Pylons, but it's useful in several other frameworks too. So we can point to our SQLAlchemy integration, but we can't say we're the only framework that has it because others will just say "We have that too." Perhaps Pylons' greatest asset is influence rather than popularity. It's gaining respect and market share among those who know a lot about Python frameworks. (There's a selling point for newbies.) It may become the "central" framework in the way Debian has become central among Linux distributors. It may not be the most popular, but it's central because it's vendor neutral (doesn't favor one company over another the way RedHat or Fedora do), and forms a reference implementation. Pylons' use of Paste, Beaker, Routes, etc, validate those libraries and has encouraged other frameworks to adopt them. Pylons' smallness makes it nimble. We can use ToscaWidgets without being tied down to it. We can take our time evaluating AuthKit vs repoze.who/what. We can become the first adopter of whatever future library may appear, and prove its (un)usefulness to the wider Python-web world. Other frameworks reject Pylons' design decisions, but they keep looking at Pylons for ideas, to see what works. So Pylons has an influence much wider than its userbase. Regarding Spring, based on a brief glance at its webpage: - Its MVC has both a Controller and a FrontController. The FrontController is equivalent to PylonsApp. The Controller is what Pylons calls a Controller and Django calls a View, although Python usage may be shifting toward the View direction (?). - The Controller returns a Model, which the FrontController passes to the view. This is similar to 'c' in Pylons. - The URL mapper is an XML file, linking URLs to controllers, views, and models. It also has "pluggable MVC", which I think would be the equivalent of modularizing part of PylonsApp to allow for different paradigms. The Pypes project is experimenting with a config-file mapper and perhaps pluggable MVC. -- Mike Orr <[email protected]> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
