On Nov 5, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Kevin J. Smith wrote:
> I found it all a bit depressing, mind you, because I have chosen to build our
> application on a technological dead end framework (Pylons 1.x) But if there
> is some inherent architectural dead end to Pylons 1.x then I completely
> understand the necessity to moving to something else.
Yes, some of the beta code I had tried out for Pylons 2.0 would've required a
similar amount of porting as this transition will.
> However, I am a bit skeptical of the BFG stuff ... not because I'm worried of
> its technical capabilities or architecture but I'm worried about its
> usability and learning curve. Back when I began coding our app I looked at
> wiring in auth and naturally evaluated repoze who/what and authkit. Even
> though it appeared, from what I was reading, that repoze who/what was the
> more capable library it failed my 10 minute test miserably. Whereas, within
> a short period of time I was able to get something working with authkit.
Luckily, pyramid comes with authentication/authorization (built-in, and
optional of course). repoze.what wasn't actually created by the repoze folks,
it was a TG2 project for authorization, which many folks have unfortunately had
a lot of problems with.
> Of course I realize that there is sometimes tradeoff between ease of use and
> capability. Which is precisely why I chose Pylons over Django - I wanted to
> be able to swap out certain modules for others - I wanted a bit more
> flexibility. But I also remember experiences with Zope in the early days - I
> found the architecture fascinating and did spend considerable time to learn
> Zope but at the end of the day I stamped it over-engineered because it was
> just almost always easier to just cobble something together with mod_python
> and coding closer to the metal.
I think you'll be able to swap in and replace most anything you'd want to in
pyramid as well, this time using better documented hook and plug-in points,
rather than attempting to glue together more things.
> It is similar to my Java/Spring framework experience. Fascinating from an
> academic viewpoint but at the end of the day it is just always easier to code
> something up with a lightweight language like Python. At the end of the day,
> the best designs usually turn out to be the simplest.
>
> I shall hold off on my opinions of Pyramids until I have a chance to play
> with it and I am truly hoping that it doesn't smell anything like Zope.
I'll be sending out an announcement later today, but there's no reason people
that want to, can't start kicking the tires now so to speak. Due to the
extremely well documented heritage of bfg, there is ample docs. They are quite
verbose, for good or bad, so people are working on more new-user friendly
guides for the 10k ft view.
Speaking of simplicity, in pyramid, if you have one of those uber-simple little
apps that doesn't need a full Pylons-like project setup, you can actually
create the entire thing in a single module if that's your fancy:
from pyramid.configuration import Configurator
from pyramid.response import Response
from paste.httpserver import serve
class MySite(object):
def __init__(self, request):
self.request = request
def hello(self):
return Response('Hello world!')
if __name__ == '__main__':
config = Configurator()
config.begin()
config.add_handler('home', '/site/:action', handler=MySite)
config.end()
app = config.make_wsgi_app()
serve(app, host='0.0.0.0')
That's it! While some of the terminology is changing, the overall style
(class-type 'controllers') for those coming from Pylons is not. Simple sites
can be simple, and larger ones that need extensibility can actually be
extensible.
> Which brings up the point, where can we get our hands on Pylons 2.0 work?
There's a pyramid 1.0a1 release on cheeseshop now, the docs are all over at
http://docs.pylonshq.com/. This is the home for the combined project right now,
and will be further integrated into the main pylonshq site.
Cheers,
Ben
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