Please. This has been many times by several people already. No-one is
going to change their mind on this by now. There's no point in
rehashing it and adding noise to the thread.
Best wishes
Rob Cliffe
On 15/06/2022 13:43, David Mertz, Ph.D. wrote:
As well as all the matters Steven raises, I continue to dislike the
proposal for the same reason I did on earlier rounds. I believe a
general "deferred computation" mechanism is useful, but that one
limited to the context of function parameters does more harm than good
is scoped narrowly to that single use. I keyword version might bridge
that gap by introducing "later" or "defer" or "delay" in a narrow
context, but not foreclosing its later use more broadly.
On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 8:38 AM Steven D'Aprano <st...@pearwood.info>
wrote:
On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 11:59:44AM +0100, Rob Cliffe via
Python-ideas wrote:
> I used to prefer `:=` but coming back to this topic after a long
> interval I am happy with `=>` and perhaps I even like it more,
Chris.😁
> The PEP status is "Draft". What are the chances of something
happening
> any time soon, i.e. the PEP being considered by the Steering
Committee?
There's no Sponsor, so it isn't being considered by the SC. That
much is
objectively true.
Beyond that, the following is all my personal opinion, and should
not be
taken as definitive or official in any way. Importantly, I have *not*
read back through the entire thread to refresh my memory. However, I
have re-read the PEP in detail.
There's no consensus that this feature is worth the added
complexity, or
even what the semantics are. The PEP punts on the semantics,
saying that
the behaviour may vary across implementations.
There's no consensus on the syntax, which may not matter, the
Steering
Council can make the final decision if necessary. But with at
least four
options in the PEP it would be good to narrow it down a bit. No soft
keywords have been considered.
In my opinion, there are weaknesses in the PEP:
- lack of any reference to previous discussions;
- no attempt to gather feedback from other forums;
- no review of languages that offer choice of early or late binding;
- little attempt to justify why this is better than the status
quo; the
PEP seems to take the position that it is self-evident that Python
needs this feature, rather than being a balanced document
setting out
both pros and cons;
- little or no attempt in the PEP to answer objections;
- examples are all chosen to show the feature in the best possible
light, rather than to show both the good and bad; (e.g. no examples
show the parameter with annotations)
- failure to acknowledge that at least one of the suggested syntaxes
is visually ambiguous with existing syntax.
E.g. this would be legal with the PEP's second choice of spelling:
def func(spam, eggs:=(x:=spam)):
Even if the parser can distinguish the two uses of `:=` there, its
awfully cryptic. In and of itself, that's not necessarily a fatal
flaw
(e.g. slicing) but the benefits have to outweigh the negatives,
and the
PEP should be a balanced discussion of both.
--
Steve
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