> Sendmail is easier... Hmmmmm... for whom???
> You??? Probably.
> Me???? Not on your life.
Just my opinion. I got sendmail 8.9.3 and ran the ./Build. I edited
the .mc like the readme/installs said and ran m4. Make install and I
was up and running. It it a single program, sendwhale, with a few side
programs -- but they're all in one package. It has multi-rbl, access
lists, etc., well documented with exact examples. *SURE* it's only one
possible use of the rule_set, right Sam, but it's right there, clear as
day. Sendwhale certainly has come a long way.
How many programs does qmail have? I've lost count... I have qmail,
ezmlm, dotforward, accustamp, cyclog, tcp-env, tcpserver, setuser,
rblsmtpd, qmail-pop3d, checkpassword, maildrop, qmail-popup, qmail-smtpd
(and all the other qmail- programs), and I'm sure I'm overlooking at
least a dozen more (or ones that I haven't even come across yet). You
have to figure out how to install each of these (fairly simple, even
with all the silly accounts that you have to create) and configure them
(very difficult), have c++ compilers, files and config files spread all
over the system (ie: default install).
Sure, it works... eventually... maybe. It might be efficient (as long
as you're not on a serial line?). I may be secure, as long as you don't
allow users to write .qmail files. It even comes default as an open
relay! Heck, even sendwhale changed that!
And, to top all of this off, the docs suck! I mean, it's not that qmail
is bad, really, it isn't! It's the docs. I asked someone to give me an
example of a standard unix program that called itself as part of its
normal/standard use. It couldn't be done... why? because there isn't
one, or if someone can dig up one, there certainly aren't a lot of them
to the point where that usage would not be confusing and non-intuitive.
You can find a doc on sendwhale to do just about anything you need.
It's well referenced, up to date.. and correct. It doesn't assume that
people are going to install AllmanOS just to get sendmail running. It
would say edit the conf-* files in *each* section, if it had to.
> Sendmail is the reason I switched to qmail... I once heard a reference to
> the "ease of use" of Sendmail many, many moons ago... Sorry I cannot
> remember the original author:
>
> "The sendmail.cf file looks like an explosion at a punctuation factory."
Besides, I can grok sendmail.cf -- I kinda like it. I have often
thought of writing an AI/Expert-System that uses many of its techniques.
> By the time I figured out how to set up virtual domains (incorrectly - no
> dox for it) in Suckmail, I started searching for something new in qmail.
> Installed my first test server in under an hour, slightly longer to get it
> right. Read docs for the next 2 weeks (and for those of you who were
> b*tching about 1.03 dox; 0.96 were a *lot* more sparse), then put it into
> production with less than 45 minutes downtime.
Thank goodness I wasn't around for .96 :->
> What little I couldn't figure out from the README's, I asked here on the
> list... and I got a few RTFMAgain's, and some pointers, and *all* the
> advice helped. (Tho, I never received the dreaded reply: "FAQ 5.4" :-)
Sheeit, I'd love someone to say ``it's in the FAQ'' -- but it's not!
You want a FAQ? Try installing ezmlm -- you're required to read
the FAQ just to figure out how to install the thing!
> My point for this tirade??? The dox may not be perfect, but they are
> helpful if you read them, and read them, and read them again. Maybe I could
> have been good with Suckmail with the right dox... trust me, tho; we'll
> never know. ;^>
heheh. I agree. qmail works -- it's just a battle to get to the point
where it is working and better docs would help this. Why am I whining
and not writing docs? Well, I *am* writing docs.
> RTFM might sound rude to you... if it does, well, sorry... Just chalk it up
> to a case of "sour medicine" and move on... maybe someday (after you've
> been around for a few hundred requests) you'll just say "Go to
> ftp://koobera.math.uic.edu/www/rblsmtpd.html, download it, untar it and RTFM."
Actually, I thought about that. Every time someone comes on and
prefaces their question with: I've read the docs, but I couldn't find....
I'll just say: RTFM over and over like a mantra. RTFM. RTFM.
> Chin up,
> Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Oh, my chin is up. I actually kinda like qmail. I just don't like the
lack of docs. I haven't written docs for it because I felt that I
didn't know it enough to WRITE docs for it -- and those who do know it
don't feel they need to share.
Scott
ps: I'll post my page with qmail docs and source code soon.
