On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 9:32:05 AM UTC+2, Andrew David Wong wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > On 2016-08-30 00:05, Darko Vuković wrote: > > On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 8:54:52 AM UTC+2, Andrew David Wong > > wrote: On 2016-08-29 23:41, Darko Vuković wrote: > >>>> On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 8:26:40 AM UTC+2, Andrew > >>>> David Wong wrote: On 2016-08-29 21:28, Drew White wrote: > >>>>>>> On Saturday, 20 August 2016 04:28:16 UTC+10, Andrew > >>>>>>> David Wong wrote: > >>>>>>>> I don't know enough about the AMD platform to answer > >>>>>>>> definitively, but if I'm interpreting this Twitter > >>>>>>>> exchange correctly, it sounds like you might be > >>>>>>>> right: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/QubesOS/status/756041961203785728 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So what are the actual requirements for Qubes 4? > >>>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> The minimum requirements haven't been officially announced > >>>> yet. (Only the requirements for Qubes Hardware Certification > >>>> have been). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If I understood correctly, one peace of the puzzle is Intel > >>>> EPT (Extended Page Tables) enabled CPU's. So any > >>>> laptop/notebook with one of them. > >>>> > >>>>>> http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced?ExtendedPageTables= > >>>>>> true&MarketSegment=MBL > >>>> > >>>> but, what I've managed to find on this topic is that you > >>>> should avoid > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> - CPU with Intel® vPro Technology (so say good buy to: > >>>> http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced?s=t&MarketSegment=MBL&; > >>>> VProTechnology=true) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> - Intel wireless cards (use Atheros instead) > >>>> > >>>> There are also three versions of Intel ME (Management > >>>> Engine), Commercial and Consumer. They are both bad but > >>>> consumer version is crippled one (less bad). I'm not sure how > >>>> can someone pick one or the other but it would be nice to > >>>> know. > >>>> > >>>> Potentially deadliest combination (privacy wise) is: CPU > >>>> with vPro Technology+Intel wireless card+Intel ME > >>>> (commercial version) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> It would be nice if someone could confirm(or deny) this and > >>>> add some more information regarding other hardware here. > >>>> > >>>> Thaks > >>>> > > > > This thread is about hardware *requirements* for 4.0, not hardware > > that it would be prudent to avoid for various reasons. > > > > > > Well, I'm sorry for spamming here then but one could easily think > > that avoiding "bad hardware" should be exactly the requirement for > > this OS?! > > > > I'm simply pointing out that your message is not directly relevant to > this thread. There are already lots of other threads on vPRO, Intel > ME, etc. You're free to join those discussions or even start your own > thread, if you like. > > "Bad hardware" is a controversial topic. Not everyone agrees on what > hardware is "bad" or even what exactly "bad" means in this context. > Arguably, there is no hardware currently available that is not "bad." > (Go read Joanna's papers and blog if you're not already convinced of > this.) If we're going to use computers at all right now, we're going > to have to accept hardware that is, to a not insignificant degree, > bad. It's unavoidable (for now). > > Can we, nonetheless, try to minimize the badness? We certainly can, > and that's an admirable pursuit. Are we going to set, as a minimum > requirement for Qubes, the elimination of all badness that can > possibly be eliminated? No, since we realize that the perfect can be > the enemy of the good. This is the same reason we support USB > kekyboards, for example. Using a USB keyboard is, frankly, a big > security risk. It would be better (less bad) not to use one. But some > of our users have no choice. If they can't use a USB keyboard, they > can't use Qubes at all. Using Qubes with a USB keyboard is still much > better than not using it at all. (At least, we think so. We leave this > determination up to each user rather than making the decision for > them.) We *could* make PS/2 keyboards a minimum requirement of Qubes, > thereby denying access to these people. Likewise, we *could* make the > absence of your list of undesirable hardware components a minimum > requirement of Qubes, thereby denying access to even more people. In > both cases, however, we believe the result would be worse for our > users, so we're not doing it. > > - -- > Andrew David Wong (Axon) > Community Manager, Qubes OS > https://www.qubes-os.org > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJXxTZcAAoJENtN07w5UDAwV2cP/2FaOcN9O1DV6GZOQFfAgoLd > uEja4/SVbgPTtE83v9UMVsIDFa8TXtmpZP0RyTH6s/wLr1iuCODTzMalSmyAVv+y > taSSU/DluSrKwfEiuCGraBMOvniDPkFXi4QOtOhPDMvHKjkWEjq+zVcKo0OqLiRe > v5I9le92G4GqUJSIb4l0UkcPKmG+AljdS41u6KlOCuqQuqCGYZj+Z5gVaDzS6gwQ > 9o0xArRiv2vP4eMIIQPjtX+x9sYSNasJVZqy+W4xw+Ftj3AJzpe+8p7MBw1lXM0d > Nz9XERTq+jgxNmoineLTepEfz1fnyZRB0jrm3zwHoviEPOgFPWprtsK4cFx52EVc > GTMFsHdxz4tTW/L6HY3fuZQBxHnWgcLR2Mc5amZgWzRF0N5zsXZZUqmcjpAVDPEe > Nqwn/HubLbIEwVwgl4dUfIWe5ku6KukY3MhvRuvuzt4sJOl7x9yj3xOugfgJMox+ > Ngi7jJKyLHjIzq/edi8eRAQSooE+7yJbh9VotGKUr23rTNpufspUyMmQXq5dfDeP > Dv2OIt26mhC1a2qGqTF024cd5zbNBikp6SUt9wQ647pUzXPPY6+5AegeVOd/WTRj > 4IgNtU0xBaWdDPq17+7DlmYrHfAtDczrpgVH88kTjIFgG3SOdFEIlpFDdqMNJwEZ > sTlwt5jBHh9NfloiavAs > =fTH/ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I agree with you that we're stuck with the hardware as it is... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/038348f8-4170-4122-a080-9823301b82e4%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
