> Case in point: how many agreements on a signle definition of progress
> from a bunch of nobodies has the same value as the definition from an
> implementer?

Two points about this:

1.  My original point was that the word "progress" automatically puts
people in the frame of mind that says things should keep changing -- it's
a very loaded word that distorts people's understanding.  Rather than find
a definition, we should agree to use a more neutral word, such as "change,"
so as not to introduce unexamined presuppositions into the discussion.

2.  I'm not convinced that implementors should have more say than anyone
else.  IIRC, that's how we got multiple return values.  If we give extra
votes to anyone, it should be mathematicians.  (I'm not one, so I don't
get any extra votes under that proposal.)

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