And on the subject of labels and roles, I'm from the opinion that there's a lot more to it than just fancy, if one being honest about it.
For instance, there's the developer (programmer) who takes on directions from a manager, or "stakeholder" if you're into Agile, goes on, implements it, and that's his job. Then there's the developer (architect) who contributes or actually does the architecture (the set of screens, why yes / why nots of the UX side of things), writes the markup, writes the back-end code. He also contributes to deciding which features will be at a certain release. So that's 2 very distinct packages you as an employer are looking at, that obviously justify 2 very different numbers on the pay slip. ps: not Java flamebait, but I've met Java devs who are of the first sort I mentioned, making 150k+ a year. So market dumbness applies. On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Korny Sietsma <ko...@sietsma.com> wrote: > One of the big problems with this, in my experience, is the fuzziness of job > titles in IT, combined with the flatness of hierarchies. > "Senior" developer can mean pretty well anything - you can be a senior > developer at 27, because you have 5 years experience in one technology area, > or you can be a senior developer at 40 with 5 years experience in a wide > range of things - but you still might have a job title of "senior developer" > unless you take on labels like "architect*" or roles like "team lead" or > "dev lead" or whatever the specific company you work for calls "someone who > no longer gets to practice the craft of coding 100% of the time". > > Of course, this means the distribution of salaries for senior developers is > a very strange curve, with a huge hump around the time when most developers > get promoted to "senior" because they are evidently no longer "junior", and > a very long tail of people who keep the "senior developer" job title, but > also manage to get continual salary increases. > > I think the "what should I be paid?" question really doesn't relate to job > title at all - you should be asking "what would I be paid if I moved > elsewhere?" (which is almost always more than you are currently getting) > combined with "how much of that am I willing to sacrifice because I like my > job / don't like the risk of the new job being crap / don't like the risk of > being unemployed". > > Which is still fuzzy, sorry! > > (I gave up on being a senior developer a few years ago, as I could see the > writing on the wall, so I'm a "Dev Lead" now - but I still desperately cling > to my right to write code!) > > - Korny > p.s. I left out the subject of Consultants, who also distort the salary > curve considerably, because this rant was getting over-long already. > > * I was going to link to Martin Fowler's excellent article on software > architects, but martinfowler.com seems to be down... > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Sebastian von Conrad > <sebastian.von.con...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hello RoRO, >> >> Been lurking here for a while and thought this might be an ideal place >> to ask a question that's been on my mind for some time. >> >> A couple of weeks from now, I'm getting promoted to a senior developer >> position within my company. In the past six months, I've moved from >> being an indian in the development team to being its chieftain, and >> I'm going to get a title to go with the additional responsibilities. >> >> With the promotion comes a salary increase as well, and it's here >> where my question is. >> >> I don't know what the going rate for senior developers in Australia >> is, salary-wise. >> >> I have only lived here for a little more than a year, and this is my >> first gig. Naturally, I'd like to make sure that my salary is >> competitive with the market, so I'd appreciate any feedback from >> employers and employees alike with regards to this. >> >> Locality doesn't really matter. We're a company with offices in >> various cities, and our salaries shouldn't really depend on where in >> Australia I work. My current salary shouldn't be a factor, either, as >> it's a very different position and a lot has changed in the company >> and the team since I started. >> >> The few job opportunities that have salary ranges here *seem* to >> indicate that somewhere around 70-100K per year would be normal, but >> I'd love to have as much info from as many sources as possible. That >> way, I can make sure I have some leverage when I talk to my boss(es) >> about it. >> >> Best, >> Sebastian >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. >> To post to this group, send email to rails-ocea...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Kornelis Sietsma korny at my surname dot com > kornys on twitter/fb/gtalk/gwave www.sietsma.com/korny > "Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part > that wonders what the part that isn't thinking > isn't thinking of" > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. > To post to this group, send email to rails-ocea...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en. > -- http://crazyhollywood.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. 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