Yes, definitely not a homage, certainly based in part on the pure functionality of 80s mountain bikes. The vintage ones I've had (Canyon Express, Miyata Ridge Runner, Mongoose) all had chainstay lengths of, off the top of my head, 43-46cm, which is right around the touring bike territory of the day. But if you have read Petersen's writing on the chain stay thing, you'll know that they had to get special tubing drawn because nobody makes, or ever made, chain stay tubing in these new lengths, which are significantly longer than vintage mountain bike chainstays.
As far as tight turns, again, the designer specifically addresses the wider turning radius for U turns, which was, to quote, who cares? The other handling characteristics gained with the longer stays trump this and the wheel hopping based on his functional goals for the bike's handling. To say shortening the stays by a centimeter or two would result in a "better handling" bicycle does not say anything, really. I would be surprised if the Clem chainstay length goes down--looks like most other frames are heading up toward Clem length territory. I don't recall reading anything about chainring clearance being a factor in the decision to build with longer stays. And heel clearance for panniers is an ancillary benefit, not the primary reason for longer stays. Even though this is the Internet, I'm not a bike designer. I've ridden lots of bicycles, but so what. I just find it odd to argue that the Clem chainstays should be shorter. In that case, probably a different bike is the answer, and there are a few to choose from. Or, maybe Grant will realize he is "90% there" and rethink the extra long stays and shorten them up on batch number 3 (he did shorten up the stays on the tandem, but that's a different design brief). But I think they ride these prototypes extensively, and from what he has written, he seems clear on what the benefits are for the kind of bikes he wants to create. Now please excuse me while I go try to pop a wheelie on my Clementine. On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 10:35:37 AM UTC-4, masmojo wrote: > > How long is too long!? The bike was made as a homage to or at least > evolved from the idea of early 80's mountain bikes, which had longer > stays, steel forks, etc. The thing is on your large, the chain stays could probably be 1 to 1.5 > inches shorter and you still wouldn't have to worry about clipping the > pannier and you would get the benefit of a better handling bike. > > The difference is in the 80's they made the stays long because they had > too, their limited choice of components determined frame design to a large > extent, but even then the bikes were built by road racers & they weren't > going to make them any longer than they had to. > Today, we have too many choices, you could do like many 29'ers & curve > the seat tube to make a very compact rear triangle (I am not advocating > that). So, in the end how do you know when the chainstay is too long? > Simple, when it's longer than it needs to be! Need heal clearance for bags > and panniers, etc. Fine determine how much that needs to be, but no more! > My Clementine has 2.2 wide tires on it now & could probably go 2.4 without > much fuss. Amazing when you consider that the stays are almost straight > and the bike uses a narrow BB shell! This all tells me that they are too > long, even if you did not have the anecdotal evidence of riders saying how > hard it is to lift the front wheel over obstacles. I also notice the > additional wheelbase in tight turns, I really have to slow down more than I > normally would, because otherwise I clip the inside apex or blow off the > outside of the turn. > One more thing is in addition to the medium I have a small and partly > because it uses 26" wheels, the stays are much shorter. I think they are > still slightly long, but they feel much better, the small feels a little > taughter. > OK whining aside I think the Clems are great bikes, they definitely have a > unique character & charm. The design is 90% there, just needs some > tweaking, chain stay length is the main thing though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
