My experience in comparing the same or similar tires tubeless and with tubes is limited, but from based on that experience, I have to disagree: getting rid of even light tubes (70 gram or even 60 gram lightweights in the 26" X 1" or 650C X 23 mm sizes) certainly seemed to make Schwalbe Kojaks roll faster and smoother, and I've mentioned my experience with tubeless, paper-thin Big Ones.
This stands to reason: if a good amount of rolling resistance is caused by the internal parts of the tire system rubbing against themselves, then removing one suchj element would remove one cause of resistance. From the opposite extreme, my experience adding Mr Tuffys or suchlike liners very definitely makes tires feel slower, as in 6" of cold molasses. What do others with experience of both systems say? On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 4:32 PM ted <ted.ke...@comcast.net> wrote: > Roberta, > > I am so glad you are thrilled with your new stuff. I hope this doesn't > come out too negative/snarky/preachy/.... because I can't keep from > quibbling. > > I think tubeless gets a lot of unwarranted or rather I should say > imprecisely stated, jumping over an important logical step, credit for > giving a "better" ride. Your bikes would probably ride just as dreamy if > they had light tubes between the rims and the tires as they do with the > sealant that is in there now. It''s the tires, and pressure, followed > perhaps by the rims and spokes that give you that ride. The tubeless thing > "just" (potentially) changes how you experience flats with those tires. > (Btw I think there is a similar and valid argument regarding weight.) Since > you aren't a 200+ lb guy or riding 23mm tires, I'll wager you'd never have > trouble with pinch flats either way. So what tubeless is really doing for > you is saving you from dealing with road debris (e.g. goat heads, > staples/wires, glass, etc.) induced flats. > > The number of road debris induced flats a person encounters, as well as > how inconvenient those flat are, can be quite dependent the the local and > the person. For example I think there is a list member who can barely go a > mile without hitting a goat head, whereas I can go months at a time on RH > extralight tires with superlight tubes and never get a flat. I think James > hates fixing flats in the rain and/or mud. Where I live it doesn't rain for > months on end. > > On the other hand, the difference in ride qualities between uber stout > tires and very light supple tires is the same for everybody everywhere > (though admittedly some folks care more than others). So I think it is > worth while to be clear about exactly what the direct benefits of going > tubeless are. > > Anyway. Congratulations on your great upgrades. Sounds wonderful. > > regards > Ted > p.s. If you want to go crazy on the weight saving, get a Ti frame Brooks, > Rivet, or Berthoud saddle and a 1/3 Ti duraAce cassette. > > On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 9:42:36 AM UTC-7, Roberta wrote: >> >> In April 2017, I rode a 2016 stock-built Rivendell Joe Appaloosa at >> Gravel and Grind and fell in love. James (formerly of G&G, now of >> Analog Cycles) recommended a Brooks B-17 saddle, fenders, a rear rack, and >> I happily pedaled away for the next three years. My only change was to >> a Brooks Flyer saddle. >> >> >> I love the ride of the Appaloosa and rode it at home on the weekends. When >> I wanted another bike at my office for after work rides, I bought an A. >> Homer Hilsen from a fellow RBW member. My only issue with the Joe >> Appaloosa was it was heavy for me to maneuver on mass transportation, >> steps, and general lifting. Now I had a lighter AHH, and that is the >> bike I chose to travel with. >> >> >> But…I still loved the ride of the Appaloosa…it was just so…heavy. A >> call to James and Candice one day to talk about tubeless tires options, and >> I was signing up to change nearly everything on it to lighten it and get an >> even better ride. I changed the saddle back to the B-17, removed the >> heavy and too large for my use Carradice bags. Rack, fenders and kickstand >> are too practical, so I kept them. >> >> >> On Memorial Day weekend, I drove both bikes to Analog Cycles. AHH got >> 1.75” Gravel King tubeless tires and a shorter stem. Instead of regular >> grips, they wrapped the grip area with Fizik tape over gel. Deity valve >> caps in red for the finishing touch. I didn’t need to change out >> anything else on the bike—it already had dyno lighting and the correct >> rims. My new bag is a Sackville Banana Sax, just the perfect size! >> >> >> The Appaloosa got the most work. They changed the handlebar from steel >> Choco-moose to aluminum Albatross and changed my 3x8 (or 3x9, I forget) >> drive train to a 1x11 with indexed shifting. However, the biggest >> difference came with the new wheels, tubeless tires and dyno lighting! >> Candice >> recommended purple spoke nipples and they look great with the butterscotch >> frame. Near the valve stem, she changed the colorway to gold, topped >> off with chartreuse valve caps, and I think it looks smashing! I also >> got nice cork grips that probably a “blend” because they have more give >> than the Rivendell ones. I also like the ergonomic “bulge” in the >> middle, like the older cork grips Riv used to sell. >> >> >> The ride with the tubeless tires on both bikes, wheels built by Analog’s >> master wheel builder Mark, is sublime. The more I ride them, the more I >> LOVE them. They soak up the bad city pavement and cracks in the MUP >> sidewalks. Even going over railroad tracks isn’t jarring. The tires >> just “smush” to take up as much road vibrations as it can. Yet, they >> are not slow or plodding. I explained it to Bicycle Belle Ding Ding, >> who was anxiously awaiting delivery of her new wheels, this way: “By >> the time I get home from my rides, I feel so much less beat up and feel >> like I can keep on going.The ride was so much more pleasant.” It took a >> few days to get to this state. Every day I rode them I liked them so >> much more than the previous day. I think part of that is getting the >> psi down to my optimal level. On the day that the pressure felt too low >> and I just pumped it up to 35 psi. Over time, I’ll find my sweet-spot, >> pressure wise. >> >> >> Then, there is Dyno lighting! I can now just jump on the Appaloosa >> without worrying if I charged my lights. The Edulux light Analog speced >> is so bright. I have Busch + Muller IQ-XS on the AHH. It’s very nice, >> but not nearly as bright as the Edulux. >> >> >> Now the Appaloosa is light enough for me to pick up, move it around, even >> carry it up steps if needed, or onto a train if there is no boarding >> platform. I just love it! Candice, James, and Mark did a fantastic job >> and I’m SO pleased. They are easy to work with and are meticulous with >> their work. They picked the parts and basically, I said “OK.” >> >> Going tubeless took a lot of consideration. I heard so much pros and >> cons, but after speaking with James and Candice, I decided to take the >> chance. What would happen if I didn’t like it???—I’d take the goo out >> of the tires and put in tubes. And, I’d be out some money. But, I’m >> so glad (in the two weeks I’ve had the “new” bikes) I took the chance. The >> ride quality is AMAZING. Beyond anything I could even imagine. >> >> >> Here are my new Appaloosa parts: >> >> >> Shutter Precision PV-8 Hub >> >> Bitex Center lock Disc 145mm Rear Hub >> >> Schmidt Edelux II dynamo light >> >> Busch & Muller Toplight Line Plus rear light >> >> Pancenti Brevet Rims >> >> Sapim Lazer spokes >> >> Sapim Allow Spoke Nipples in purple >> >> White Industries ENO Square Taper 1x >> >> White Industries Titanium Bottom Bracket >> >> Sram NX 11 Speed Trigger Shifter >> >> Sram GX Rear Mech rear derailler >> >> Connex Nickel Plated 11 speed chain XL >> >> Shimano XT 11-46 11 speed Cassette >> >> Tallux stem—80mm >> >> Albatross aluminum handlebars >> >> Cork grips >> >> Teravail Rampart 650bx47 light and supple brown wall tires (originally, >> these were to be GravelKings, but there was a mix up in the order, so James >> and Candice recommended these, as they were in the shop and they were on >> their personal bikes.) >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/572b48e7-0101-4012-98eb-3caf99f5ff29o%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/572b48e7-0101-4012-98eb-3caf99f5ff29o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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