Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think (so 
far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my mid 
80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, which 
is what I think I'm after.

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry a 
> load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down 
> for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a 
> lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  
>
> I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in 
> terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm 
> stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to 
>> do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
>> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
>> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't 
>> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots 
>> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
>> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
>> opinion.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
>>> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting 
>>> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel 
>>> dead.
>>>
>>> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv 
>>> frames?
>>>
>>> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not 
>>> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through 
>>>> and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>>>
>>> -- 
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