Great John ! FWIW, I have 2 sets of Specialized cartridge bearing hubs(radial type bearings) from the early 80's that have that same kind of lateral play. I've been riding them all this time and I just consider it a harmless quirk. They're interesting in that they use a threaded axle and a flat, non-angled cone and washers and nuts. They look just like loose ball hubs from the outside, and if I replaced the radial bearings with AC ones I would be able to preload them just like loose ball hubs. I tried to remove the play long ago but realized the play is inherent in the bearings. The radial bearings still roll fine so if something isn't broke I'm not going to touch them. I can't tell you how many times I've "tried" to fix what isn't broke and ended up breaking what was never broken in the first place.
I also have a couple sets of Phil Wood hubs that also use radial bearings but they don't have any play, so the bearings they use are possibly of higher tolerances, or maybe there's more drag from the sealing that keeps any play at bay. That's just speculation. They roll fine so once again I'm not touching them ! So if your bearings are running smooth you may as well keep riding them. If they ever need replacing then you could get a pair of AC ones(or some Phil Wood radials) , but remember it's only the outside bearings(if it uses 2 pairs per side) that can be AC as there is no way to load the inner ones. I think WI uses Enduro bearings, which are of middle-of-the-road quality. Phil bearings are considered premium, at least for bicycle applications that is. On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 6:07:46 AM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote: > Thank you, Garth! What an education this is, and I really appreciate the > time and effort you've put into helping me understand this. > > As for how much play, if I had to guess I'd say that when I grab my wheel > at the tire a move it laterally to test for play there's maybe a 1-2mm > shift. Maybe? I don't notice it when I'm riding. Then again, I'm not even > sure what I would be noticing if the wheel were flopping around as I ride. > > However, I have noticed of late that sometimes when I'm braking in a > corner there's a little bit of a shriek from the rear rim. This is, in > fact, what got me thinking about the play again after coming to terms with > it for some time. Could be just an improperly adjusted brake pad, but I did > just change them (salmon thinlines), set them up properly, and still a > little noise while cornering. Somehow I'm imagining the angle of contact > between the brake pad and the rim changes slightly while in a corner due to > the play in the hub, and this is what's causing the noise. But, I'm > certainly not knowledgeable enough for this to be anything but an > hypothesis. > > I'm looking forward to investigating the RC vs AC bearings. In the > meantime, my take-away from your note is that as long as I have radial > bearings I should expect some play in the hub when off the bike. > > Thanks again! > John > > > > On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 6:22:54 PM UTC+9 Garth wrote: > >> John, I know it's impossible to put into words how much play you are >> experiencing, but if it helps at all many cartridge bearing hub with radial >> type bearings exhibit a small amount of lateral play. It's not enough to >> notice when riding or braking, only when you're off the bike and wiggle the >> rim. Radial type cartridges are preloaded and nonadjustable. While I see WI >> shows the end being adjustable, other that to snug up the end I don't see >> any other benefit to it. If the bearings were angular contact type then yes >> it could be adjusted. As I was writing this I was curious, and sure, that >> someone has replaced their outermost radial bearings with AC type, and sure >> enough I found this thread : >> https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/1074471-swap-radial-cartridge-angular-contact-bearings.html >> >> The relevant reply after many "whys and no you can'ts" from people who >> have not done it, is #15 ... and watch the video contained in reply #19 for >> a brief on the differences between radial and AC cartridge bearings. >> >> >> *Thanks* >> >> *I posed this question to my wheel builder, Jude at Sugar, and here is >> what she said about using AC bearings with my White T11 hub:* >> >> *Yes, it would be ideal to have angular contact bearings as the outermost >> bearings in the hub. White Industries doesn't do this as a stock option >> because it's a lot of bearings for them to manage in inventory. But, as we >> replace bearings here, we use angular contact bearings which will require >> an adjustment.* >> >> *Then I asked about the preload issue and her response was:* >> >> *The locking collar on the non-drive side is actually an adjusting >> collar.* >> >> * So you'll lock down the collar just until the play disappears which is >> much like doing the bearing adjustment but you will have to be aware of any >> play in your wheel.So I guess its possible but not clear why its ideal on >> the outermost bearings.* >> >> <https://www.bikeforums.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=20665945> >> >> The answer to "why" would be longevity of the bearings and the ability to >> remove any play. You just have to be aware of your preload, like on loose >> ball hubs. >> >> Yay ! >> >> On Wednesday, January 26, 2022 at 1:28:17 AM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote: >> >>> Garth and Jeffrey, >>> >>> Thank you very much for your kind replies. Yes, this was my first course >>> of action when the problem first arose, and while WI contacts at the time >>> were attentive and wished to help, I recall we didn't really come to a >>> solution. I do have a conversation in the wings with another knowledgeable >>> fellow, so I'll see where this one takes me. I contact WI again if >>> necessary. >>> >>> S.Greco, I'll keep you informed should my issue be resolved. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> John >>> >>> On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 10:47:39 PM UTC+9 S. Greco wrote: >>> >>>> I have this same issue with one of my M15 hubs. Please post if you get >>>> a solid answer. >>>> My LBS recommended new bearings which I bought and installed, but it >>>> did not fix the issue. >>>> >>>> On Monday, January 24, 2022 at 9:33:29 PM UTC-5 Jeffrey Arita wrote: >>>> >>>>> John, >>>>> >>>>> As Garth advises, I too would reach out to White Industries. I had a >>>>> question regarding a rear hub awhile ago and they were very helpful. >>>>> Speaking on the phone in a two-way is, IMHO, always better. They might >>>>> need to eventually inspect the hub, so that might happen. Either way, WI >>>>> has been outstanding, at least for me. Good luck. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Jeff >>>>> Claremont, CA >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 3:07:46 PM UTC-8 John Rinker wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Please pardon if this is not the forum for this and kindly redirect >>>>>> me if possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> The rear wheel of my Hunq finds a White M15 that is about 4 or so >>>>>> years old at its center. Several years ago it developed a bit of play >>>>>> and I >>>>>> haven't been able to solve the issue. I have adjusted it meticulously >>>>>> according to White's specifications, but the play resurfaces after a few >>>>>> kilometers of riding. >>>>>> >>>>>> I. have a. new set of bearings for the hub, but before I replace them >>>>>> I thought I'd reach out to see if anyone might offer a simpler fix. >>>>>> >>>>>> CHeers, >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2e4f41b3-ea81-421e-9f8b-d627258b2695n%40googlegroups.com.
