@frahm - Awesome shot. Looks like a fun trail. Where is that? @Jason - The Knolly is definitely a fun bike, but I consider moving to a hard tail all the time. I just don't get wild enough to take advantage of a full suspension bike. I kind of think i would still like to have a bike with some suspension in my stable. My shoulders are starting to feel the trail a little too much these days, but hopefully some strength and mobility work will sort that out. I definitely want to keep a bike around for the occasional trip to the downhill spots, so I'll prob always have something around with modern geo.
@rmrose Handlebars - The bars I'm running definitely aren't straight, they just aren't anywhere near as swept back as the Bosco. Tumbleweed Pursuader <https://tumbleweed.cc/collections/products/products/persuader-bar> It's 50mm rise and 31 degree back sweep. It's also 800mm wide, which is too wide. I'm about to swap them for Velo Orange Seine bars, are narrower (750 mm), have a little more sweep, and a little less rise. And I'll try Wavies after that, but I think 660mm wide is too narrow, and they may have too much sweep for my wrists ... We'll see. The main thing is that the Boscos, even with a 110mm stem, hit my knees going around switch backs. I love the upright position for cruising, but it just didn't work for trail riding. A shorter stem and wider bars does change the handling a bit - It's a little more responsive I'd say, so with the long stem and Boscos, the handling is a little mellower and the bike swoops a bit more. Tires - Yeah, G-one's are great! I've found that for me, aggressive tread is really only necessary when conditions get a little sloppy, and we got basically zero rain all summer, so I haven't needed it. We'll see what the fall brings, but we're not supposed to ride muddy trails either - but that's more like when the entire trail is just wet. When it rains two or three days a week, there are always muddy spots a day or two after it rains, but we've pretty much been cleared to ride at that point. Just not like the 24 hours after a solid storm. Anyway, the 2.8's G ones grip every bit of bone dry trail and rock I've thrown at them, and since I cruise on this bike too, I like running the smoothest tire that gets the job done. I'll prob try the Terravails eventually and I have some 57mm G one's to try out as well, but changing tubeless tires is a PITA so I might dig up some more wheels. My Knolly has pretty aggressive tires (Maxis Asegai in the front) and it really digs in to the soft stuff and grabs the slabs, but I haven't come close to washing out on the G Ones in the dry dirt or rocks at all. Saddle Height - My saddle in those photos is at about 68cm. My PBH is like 82cm, but I don't remember what shoes I was wearing when I measured it. My saddle height for path cruising is about 71cm, but, like I said, I drop it a couple CM for riding single track, and I don't always put it back up. For the medium Gus, my saddle height is just slightly too low to run a Carradice bag with a bagman rack, but it works great with a more typical rear rack. It's also a little too low to run a standard medium size BagsxBird saddle bag without a rack (I think). Paul in AR On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 4:49:50 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote: > This is why I think there are too many ways to screw up that measurement. > I am 5’10” and consistently measure PBH at or near 85-86. I have my saddles > at 72 across the board. I did have my saddles higher before moving to the > mid foot position. > In any event, I sent an e mail to Antonio @ Riv to ask about the saddle > height on his Susie - 75. > That settles it for me. If I get the opportunity to purchase a Susie / Gus > it will be the 53. Which is ok - I like 27.5 too!:) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 22, 2022, at 3:47 PM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I’m right there with you, Richard. I think PBH gets you in the ballpark, > but I always feel like a bit of an oddball whenever I read Rivendell talk > about how to figure it in relation to saddle height. > > For example, I’m 5’8” with a 84cm PBH. However, my saddle height is > consistently 71-72cm across all my bikes, so I always feel like I’m riding > my saddles lower than I should be. But, if I raise them any higher, I get > knee pain immediately. > > On Oct 22, 2022, at 1:53 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Paul, regarding your wheel size comments; what is your saddle height if I > may ask? I sometimes get a little frustrated by PBH measurements. There is > built in inaccuracy imho taking that measurement. Look at this pic of a Riv > staff bike. This is a size 56 with presumably 29” wheels. My best guess as > to my PBH would be 84. The owner of this bike is 85.5. If it were as simple > as that I might conclude that I should ride the 56 vs. the 53. BUT, if I > knew the saddle height of the pictured bike it would be more useful I > think. It is complicated by the fact that I use a 2-3 cm lower saddle > height than a 84 PBH might suggest because I have adopted a mid foot pedal > position. I would love to know the saddle height of the pictured bike. Like > you, I like the 27.5 wheels and could probably make both sizes work. > [image: image0.jpeg] > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 20, 2022, at 11:43 AM, Paul Clifton <paulgc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I ride my Gus as my primary mountain bike. I have ridden a Rosco Bebe, and > MTBubbe, a Jones and a full suspension Knolly Warden on the same trails for > several years. All of then except for the Jones use 27.5 wheels: max tire > sizes = MTBubbe and Rosco Bebe 2.35", Jones 29x3", Knolly 2.5", Gus 2.8". I > didn't measure those, that's the nominal size of tire I run on them. > > Of them all, the Gus is my favorite for everything short of black diamond > downhill. I also don't jump or drop anymore (or for the time being) so on > blue/black flow trails, I brake over the table tops and roll around the > gaps. > > The Rosco Bebe and MTBubbe are similar to a Clem L in a lot of ways. The > Bebe has shorter chainstays, a 68 degree seat tube, and a longer effective > top tube, so it requires Bosco bars. The MTBubbe is a relatively short bike > in terms of modern Rivs, and it's extremely agile, yet stable. Like an old > school MTB but without the endo potential and twitchy handling. They are > both totally capable of handling all trails, and I've even ridden plenty of > black downhill trails on the MTBubbe with the seat lowered a bit, and I've > take a few good sized drops on it. It's all around just a really good > mountain bike. It's super agile and feels like riding a skateboard > sometimes, because it's so small. It fits me; it's just a little bike and I > love it. > > The Jones basically just rolls over anything without question. The huge > wheels really change the way I approach the trails. Which leads me to my > first big point > > - What size Gus/Susie would you get? *wheel size* > > 29er wheels vs 27.5 is a legitimate concern when thinking about a mountain > bike. I know I like 27.5 wheels better, but a lot of modern trails assume > you're riding a 29x2.5 to 29x2.8 tire and the size of the rocks and rollers > is engineered with that in mind. And bigger wheels just roll over more > stuff easier. For me, it's easy to let the Jones (and Knolly) get out of > control on descents, and on the Jones, it's harder to reign it in, because > the wheels just keep going. That's a rider thing, but my fat 27.5 Gus rolls > over everything, just without being completely unphased. It experiences the > bumps more, and therefore, so do it. > > My second big comment is about *dropper posts *- I would also like to > have a dropper post on my Gus, but I don't actually think it matters much. > I still like the Gus more than my Jones or Knolly that both have them. When > I get to the trail, I lower my seat about 2 cm and usually just leave it > that way. Short of really gnarly downhill stuff (and I do mean really > gnarly), I'm able to get my butt back far enough to handle it. I just > bought a QR seat post bolt, so that should make my life even easier. > > Which brings me to my third point: *handlebars* > Riv put Boscos on the Gus and Susy. That makes for a great upright riding > position, but IME, they are bad for mountain biking. They hit my legs when > I go around switch backs and the wrist angle makes it hard to hang on > properly when I'm getting my butt back to go down steep stuff. I put a 35mm > stem and Tumbleweed Pursuader bars on mine and it changed the ride for the > better in nearly every possible way. The mostly straight bars still > sometimes hit my legs on the sharpest downhill switch backs, but I think > that's a me problem and not a bike problem (a dropper would prob help that > though). > > *Handling* - The Gus handling is very responsive - like the best modern > MTBs, it's really easy to change the direction of the front wheel, to > quickly correct a line or keep it from flopping over when you hit a rock > the wrong way. Unlike modern MTBs, it holds its line extremely well, on > rough stuff AND when cruising. The length of the bike keeps it rolling > smoothly, even when the chunk tries to throw it around, so, unlike a full > suspension modern MTB with short chainstay and a steep seat tube, it's > stable on more than just the fast descents, ... > > so there's *Climbing* - The Gus is the most fun I've had climbing on an > MTB ever. It is hard to get the front wheel up over ledges, but the back > wheel is always completely planted and when it grabs a rock, the pedals > just keep it rolling. Tubeless 27.5x2.8 tires just kind of squish into any > surface and push the bike on up. It's hard to describe, but it's really > wonderful. As has been mentioned, I also climb easier and faster on it than > a lot of people on modern MTBs around here, especially full squish, which > I'm more and more convinced gives up a lot in the climbing department. > > I would absolutely choose my Gus for my single bike. The only reason I > haven't sold the Jones yet is that I want to get the Gus out on a > singletrack bikepacking trip, just to see how it compares loaded. I'm sure > it would make a great camping bike, especially on forest service roads, but > I do wonder whether the 29er wheels on the Jones are better for loaded > singletrack. > > My only other comment is about *terrain*. As others have mentioned, where > you ride makes a huge difference. In NW Arkansas, we have lots of roots, > rocks of all sizes, narrow trails, steep grades, and plenty of places where > some basic trials skills are required. I do walk some sections of some > trails on any bike I ride. We also have plenty of black diamond downhill > trails that take you rolling down vertical rock slabs and off washed out > ledges. No bike that performs exceptionally on that stuff is going to be > fun riding on a paved, flat, multi-use path along a creek for very long. If > you doing shuttle runs, get a full suspension bike. If you're doing long > mixed terrain rides (MUP to gravel to single track and back) something more > versatile is obviously the move. And even when I drive to the trail, I like > the Gus better than a modern MTB with slacker head tube and steeper seat > tube - it's more comfortable and just as capable. > > I'd love to see photos of everyone's terrain. Here are a few of my Gus > that show some of the gnarlier stuff I rode on a 20 mile single track and > path ride a couple sundays ago: > https://www.pandastuff.net/nextcloud/index.php/s/teREsXEdGSErnGk > > Paul in AR > > > On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> Greetings all. First, does anyone recall reading in one of the updates >> about additional Susie / Gus bikes becoming available? >> Second, who is using their Susie / Gus as their primary mountain bike? >> Third, is anyone able to comments on a direct comparison between a Susie >> and a Clem L? >> My Clem never ceases to amaze me. It is, without doubt the most >> comfortable bike I have ever owned. I am so ingrained to my position on the >> bike that I am now uncomfortable on my dedicated singletrack bike - a full >> suspension bike with relatively strait handlebars. The Clem is really good >> off road and on mild singletrack, but its weight and flexibility have kept >> me from giving it a go on some of the rowdy, rock and root strewn tracks I >> like to ride on the full squish bike. >> Now, I have no illusions about any rigid bike being as plush and capable >> on these trails as the suspended bike. But I do have some experience riding >> a rigid bike with big tires (Jones 29") and I liked it. The notion of a >> bike that puts me in the exact same position as my Clem but dedicated to >> singletrack has me more than a little intrigued. >> Appreciate any comments / thoughts. >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d6c7803-e42c-45c5-b10b-524578973701n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d6c7803-e42c-45c5-b10b-524578973701n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/59AABBF7-57D7-47FA-8134-74D55DB14941%40gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/59AABBF7-57D7-47FA-8134-74D55DB14941%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/60B929C8-3892-4735-B0D6-8807A6B3D01E%40gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/60B929C8-3892-4735-B0D6-8807A6B3D01E%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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