I have a nutty setup at the moment: Silver 1 shifters R7000 105 rear derailleur (yes, this is modern 11 speed which has a lower cable pull ratio) 11-32 8 speed cassette 9 speed chain
In general, it works really well. I have has some issues "finding" the larger cogs. When shifting from small to the 6th or 7th cogs, it sometimes either doesn't go enough, or goes too much. I make up for it by intentionally shifting too far and then trimming it back down. A bit tiresome, but I'm okay with it for the simplicity of the setup. Also, since this RD has a 1.4 cable pull ratio rathe than a 1.7 of the 9 speed and earlier RDs, it sould have finer movement. I believe that I have experienced this. The R7000 is definitely more forgiving than the RD-6500 that I had on previously. Thought if I want to go back to my indezed shifters, I know this RD won't work. Cheers! Ben On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 9:36:23 AM UTC-8 eliot...@gmail.com wrote: > While were on the subject. I have some Riv Silver 2 shifters. I can’t seem > to get the tension right. They’re either stiffer than I’d like or they > slip. New housing and cables. Any tips? > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 8:23 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Scott has covered this completely so I'll just add this from my >> experience with various ratcheting style shifters: I've never noticed the >> specific number of clicks per cog, what I *have *noticed is the ratchet >> feature makes the "I have to move the lever this much to get a clean shift" >> action easier to nail. I can't explain why it helps me, but I always had >> better luck with them than pure friction levers. >> >> >> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 6:43:17 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote: >> >>> John: >>> >>> I'll attempt to add to the valuable information Dave and Nick have >>> shared... >>> >>> When thinking about compatibility with shifters, RDs, and cassettes; >>> keep in mind the RD does whatever the shifter (index, ratchet, or friction) >>> tells it to do, hence the "dummy" comment. So you can for the most part >>> eliminate the RD from your compatibility question. >>> >>> Your Shimano 8 speed shifter works with your Shimano 7 speed cassette >>> because the "indexing" in the shifter is matched with the spacing between >>> the cassette cogs; hence one click, one shift. So when you click a shift >>> the shifter pulls the cable an amount that causes the RD to move (inboard >>> or outboard) an amount equivalent to the distance between the cogs of the >>> cassette. On a Shimano 8 speed cassette the distance between cogs is 4.8 >>> mm, so each time you shift with a Shimano 8 speed indexed shifter the RD is >>> going to move 4.8 mm inboard or outboard. Shimano 9 speed cassettes have >>> the cogs spaced 4.34 mm apart. You can see the problem if you were to use, >>> for example, a Shimano 9 speed indexed shifter with an 8 speed cassette >>> (one shift would move RD 4.34 mm, not the needed 4.8 mm between 8 speed >>> cassette cogs) Your 8 speed shifter works on the 7 speed cassette because a >>> limit screw on the RD doesn't allow it to move the full distance into the >>> 8th position and the distance between cogs on a 7 speed cassette are the >>> same as 8 speed: 4.8 mm. Indexing (space between cogs) is the same between >>> Shimano 7 and 8 speed, so they play well together. If you were to use a >>> cassette from a different manufacturer in which the distance between cogs >>> was different from that of a Shimano cassette, then you'd likely run into a >>> compatibility issue with your 8 speed shifter/non-Shimano cassette >>> (assuming cog spacing was different from an 8 speed Shimano cassette). >>> >>> One can almost look at a friction shifter as allowing infinite >>> adjustment. Riders that are good with them almost develop an indexing in >>> their head/hand feel then fine tune after a shift. No indexing to a >>> friction shifter so you can run a friction shifter with any make/speed >>> cassette. Just have to find the sweet spot yourself. >>> >>> The ratchets move the shift cable in little bits (and the RD in little >>> bits) I believe (I've never ran them. Someone, please, correct me if I'm >>> wrong). So each click moves the shift cable a certain amount that in turn >>> moves the RD a certain amount. You'd have to do some research to find out >>> how much the RD moves with each click of your 1975s and then do some math. >>> You know, at least with your Shimano 7 speed cassette, the cogs are spaced >>> 4.8 mm apart. How much does the 1975 shifter move the RD each click? For >>> perfect shifting on the 7 speed (or 8) cassette, the clicks (one, two, or >>> three)/RD movement would have to add up to intervals of 4.8 mm. I doubt >>> that's going to be the case, but fortunately there's a little wiggle room >>> short of perfect that will obtain satisfactory shifting. At least there is >>> more wiggle room with 4.8 mm spacing than there is with 4.34 mm (Shimano 9 >>> speed casette). >>> I guess one could look at ratchet shifting as being somewhere between >>> indexing (one click, one shift) and friction (infinite adjustment) shifting. >>> >>> Your research task: find out how much RD moves with each ratchet of your >>> 1975s. Then you'll be able to better assess compatibility with different >>> cassettes of any maker/speed, as long as you get the respective cog >>> spacing. For the compatibility issue you are inquiring about, the RD isn't >>> really part of the puzzle, so eliminate it. >>> >>> Sheldon Brown's website has that level of trivia: cog spacing, indexing >>> values. And hopefully it has ratcheting values. You might find your answer >>> there. >>> >>> Good luck! And, please, report back! >>> >>> Scott in Big Sky Country >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 05:21:38 PM MST, 'John Hawrylak' via RBW >>> Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> IF I use my 1975 Suntour Bar End Ratcheted shifters with a modern >>> Shimano RD (Deroe M531) and a Shimano 7 speed HG cassette, and modern >>> Shimano shifter cables/housings, WILL the RD shift each gear going from >>> the smallest cog to the largest cog, WITHOUT the need to ‘trim’ the RD >>> after each shift, especially when moving up in the large cogs???? >>> >>> Secondary question: If the SunTours would work without trimming, do >>> they enough pull for a 7 speed cassette??? >>> >>> I have been using 8 speed Shimano Ultegra bar ends (BS-64) with a HG-50 >>> 7 speed cassette and like it, 1 click, 1 shift, no need to trim. Been >>> curious about going back to using the SunTours rachets if the modern RD >>> eliminates the need to “trim”. Would like to know if others have tried it >>> and what the results are with respect to trimming. >>> >>> Note, NOT looking for a debate on Index vs Friction. I think index is >>> better, but I have trouble burying those nice SunTour bar ends & maybe I >>> can use them if the RD eliminates trimming. YMMV and that’s great, >>> diversity is good. >>> >>> >>> >>> John Hawrylak >>> >>> Woodstown NJ >>> >> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/54804a74-49b4-458d-87f5-359194462c8fn%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/54804a74-49b4-458d-87f5-359194462c8fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ed10e882-4f00-4d70-9eb0-1b122f690cb2n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ed10e882-4f00-4d70-9eb0-1b122f690cb2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/605409da-7129-41fd-b59c-b94053b56164n%40googlegroups.com.
