Perhaps another bit of information to muddy the waters is the Analog Cycles perspective that straight (no setback) seatposts make no sense, except for frames (like theirs) that have relatively slack seat tubes. Like our Riv’s.
Sent from my iPhone On Jun 23, 2023, at 1:41 PM, Johnny Alien <johnny.alien...@gmail.com> wrote:
All I can say is that I also felt like I needed to be back more but when I finally did the opposite and moved it forward (adjusting the cockpit) it was a night and day difference. I thought I had been pretty comfortable prior but apparently there was a better way. When I see someone wanting something with massive setback like that I think that there is something else off. On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:36:15 PM UTC-4 Jay Lonner wrote:
Bike fit remains a mystery to me. I’ve read (and re-read) various articles like “The Myth of KOPS” and the sizing and fit advice on PJW’s website, and still find myself resorting to trial and error. Of course there are various proprietary fit systems, which people are happy to charge you for, but even those seem geared toward more racer-y types, and not the Riv-ish style of setting handlebars at or above the level of the saddle.
Proper fit recently has come into renewed focus for me, as I sustained an ulnar nerve injury to my left hand while riding the Oregon Outback last month. Presumably a more dialed-in fit might have prevented this from occurring. Kim makes the point that his cockpit is comfortable, but I understand Garth to be saying that he may be even more comfortable with a more systematic approach to fit. I’m coming around to Garth’s point of view that long-torsoed folks like myself might do better to focus on stem extension rather than maximizing saddle setback, with the goal of having enough reach so that the core is more engaged and less pressure is placed on the hands.
Jay Lonner Bellingham, WA Sent from my Atari 400 Kim, What you describe is exactly my point, that more forward reach/length within a given frame is accomplished with a longer stem(and/or bar choice), not a more setback post. That's why there are so many stem lengths available(from very short to very long), and so little seatpost setback variation. Hence I said using the post alone for more forward frame reach is akin to "going the wrong direction" , given the rider is riding in their sweet spot over the bottom bracket for their given crank length.
A rider with longer relative torso calls for frame that is designed for it, as in a longer top tube(frame reach) plus an appropriately reach to the bars(stem plus bar). (The 2021 Clem version you have should qualify as having an atypically long frame reach). Typically the mega setback posts were a cheap aftermarket compensation for mountain bike frames back in the 80's that often came with a 73d STA(or steeper) which equates to the saddle being appx. 13mm closer to the BB compared to a 72d STA. Believe it or not there were are still are some saddles that have even shorter rails than a Brooks which only adds to the mayhem.
Just like fitting clothes, someone that has a longer torso needs appropriately long shirts and/or pants with sufficient rise for their given proportions. One has to ask though, in what way is the torso long-er ? Is it from a longer spine, a taller pelvis, both or other ? You wouldn't just buy mega high rise pants to make up for a relatively longer spine if your pelvis is of "normal" relation, you'd stick with appropriate rise pants and longer bodied shirts. With a bike whether the longer torso length is from a taller pelvis height or longer spine the pelvic floor to pedal relation over BB remains the same, hence it doesn't need altered. What's called for is more forward room. The longer torso length is appropriately fitted with a lengthened reach to the bar/stem combo.
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