I'm 100 percent with Jock on this issue. It's hard to take the Disraeli Gears comments about the XT RD-M760 seriously, dripping as they are with dismissiveness. We've had long threads on this forum about low normal derailleurs before, and I still find the myths that circulate about Rapid Rise perplexing. For example, the myths that Rapid Rise performs "worse" than high normal, or it's harder to set up or index, or that (per the Disraeli Gears comments) it's somehow more prone to rust than other derailleurs in the same general series, like the XT M750, built with the same material.
The reason I favor RR comes down to a shifting logic that works better for my brain and motor coordination than high normal. I shift in friction mode on all my bikes, which all have low normal rear ders. I like that I can move both levers in the same direction to get to higher/harder or lower/easier gears instead of moving oppositely. That's about it. I do think there are a few other benefits of RR: if my shift cable broke, the RR spring will push the derailleur to the easiest gear instead of the hardest, thus avoiding a potential high-gear slog home. But how often do cables break? RR also seems to shift more easily to lower/easier gears under load. But maybe this is a misattribution. Maybe I've simply gotten better about timing my shifts and floating the pedals. It does not mean that I have *trouble* with high normal shifting! To the contrary, high normal is just fine. Low normal is just a preference. What works great for Rapid Rise adherents won't necessarily work great for anyone else. Once you try RR, the possible outcomes will be that you like it, you hate it, or that you're more or less neutral about it. (You will also realize that one way or another, it is not earth shattering or life changing, nor will it make you a more skilled and faster rider). Any shifts I have missed or bungled are totally attributable to user error, to my timing or judgement, and not anything inherent to a high normal vs. low normal modality. Finally, all Rapid Rise rear ders I have tried, from the humble end to the fancy XTRs, work beautifully. The differences between them are refinement level, materials, weight, looks, aesthetics, and so on, just like every other Shimano product categories that are stratified by price point. On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 10:38:41 PM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote: > @ http://disraeligears.co.uk/…well I suppose if you pedal around in a > saltwater bath, like some of those unfortunate souls…that might happen. > > For those us who ride under sunny skies now and again—and take care of > stuff properly—I can tell you that after years and years of working those > mechs, never a mixed-up shift that wasn’t my doing and not even a > microscopic spot of corrosion to be found anywhere. > > Total hooey I say. And I’ve got the goods to prove it 🤪 > > Jock > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:15 PM Chintan Jadwani <chintan...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Another question - from a couple of reviews here people seem indifference >> of the performance between low vs high normal. But online elsewhwre, there >> seems to be strong dislike for low normal - why is that? >> >> For example - disraeligears.co.uk writes for the xt m760 >> >> "The Shimano Deore XT (M760) is my absolutely least favourite Deore XT >> variant. It has cheap (rust prone) detailing, unnecessary styling and, >> worst of all, it’s low normal. not your obvious choice for slogging your >> way through the mud and grime of a British winter. Bring back stainless >> steel small parts, polished finishes and top normal operating logic." >> >> On Wed, 20 Mar, 2024, 5:07 am John Dewey, <john...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> And the Rivendell ‘fan base’ is a subset of another and another so as to >>> be mostly inconsequential. We do count, however and a few brave souls do >>> sort-of OK serving us. >>> >>> Nevertheless, most of us (even here in RBW’s backyard) seldom cross >>> paths with cyclists with whom we have anything in common other than two >>> wheels. We’re already a bit abnormal and ‘low-normal’ makes us even more >>> so. >>> >>> Jock (and his fleet of abnormal low-normals) >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:41 AM Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have to think that most of the market for these is from the Rivendell >>>> fan base. I don't hear any other bike group talking about them at all. >>>> Because of that I kind of think IF Riv ends up bringing their new one to >>>> market the used scene will come WAY down. Just a theory. I really hope >>>> that >>>> I can test the theory (because they successfully release it) >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, March 19, 2024 at 12:14:10 PM UTC-4 chintan...@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you all for the replies :) Now that I know of the RR, every time >>>>> I am on an uphill and I have to push the gear to climb higher on the >>>>> cassette I feel some justification for having a "low-normal" derailleur. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks also for clarifying that any of these will work well. >>>>> >>>>> The RR will also hypothetically make life a little easier in >>>>> introducing a friend to front and rear shifting- why does the same action >>>>> push the bike to a higher gear in the front and lower gear in the rear (I >>>>> forget too..) >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 20:58, Miles Payton <milesh...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I got a used XTR M951 long cage derailleur for a song on ebay a few >>>>>> months ago. Maybe there's not much demand? The seller gave me a half off >>>>>> offer so I couldn't refuse. Anyway it works great and it appears they're >>>>>> usually $50-80 depending on the condition. Not bad for what was once a >>>>>> top-of-the-line derailleur. I'd just avoid the NOS stuff because that's >>>>>> where you start spending $200 or more. >>>>>> I've been plenty happy with mine. It's paired to Gevenalle 10 speed >>>>>> shifters on my Atlantis. I can't speak to replacement parts but it >>>>>> wouldn't >>>>>> be expensive to replace, and my old M900 hasn't needed more than a >>>>>> rebuild >>>>>> in 20 years. They're pretty well-made. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 12:01:39 PM UTC-5 chintan jadwani wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm looking to try a RR derailleur and want something under 50-60 >>>>>>> ideally. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which ones would you recommend? Were there are early RR derailleurs >>>>>>> that one should stay from or budget ones that are a good value? Were >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> differences in pulley sizes - so would be better to get one where >>>>>>> replacements are available? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm currently seeing an LX m580, xt M760, an xtr m951 and xtr m952 >>>>>>> around that range on ebay in different used conditions...and then the >>>>>>> prices rise very quickly! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks a lot for guiding :) >>>>>>> Chintan >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/W7fPfdsBFqw/unsubscribe >>>>>> . >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a54c1daa-9eed-4c93-a14b-291f86853932n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a54c1daa-9eed-4c93-a14b-291f86853932n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9084c968-a957-4f2f-bb00-43344136f22cn%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9084c968-a957-4f2f-bb00-43344136f22cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/W7fPfdsBFqw/unsubscribe >>> . >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CA%2BkTrE4XDcMoiUrrWTugTKbLZFgJbZ4SABvB1J_GGynVth59vw%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CA%2BkTrE4XDcMoiUrrWTugTKbLZFgJbZ4SABvB1J_GGynVth59vw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAFRZJC0HEBNFtoeMmvhi4J9oNiumSg-1LFwpDZE_C%3Dh5yRivxQ%40mail.gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAFRZJC0HEBNFtoeMmvhi4J9oNiumSg-1LFwpDZE_C%3Dh5yRivxQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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