Notes from personal experience. Your experience and views may be different.
Lived for 3 years in the southern Netherlands, and it's wonderful place to cycle both for transit and for exercise. When cycling for transportation (shopping, going out to dinner, etc.), yes, it is common to see people without helmets. Dedicated lanes, slower traffic overall (read - speed cameras work), and again dedicated bike lanes made car/bicycle less worrisome. Plus the cycling is low speed, figure 10-12 mph. However, when taking out the road bike for exercise, helmets were common. Nice lanes even outside of the major areas. Loved the path-side garbage nets, set up to have the cyclists toss their banana peels, etc. as they rode by. Back here in the US, I was on a dedicated path. No cars. Ran over a stick (apparently, as I remember nothing), which caught in my spokes, and I scorpioned. Fractured skull, and a range of other fun things. If I was not wearing a helmet, I'm not typing this today. Even with one, the long term impact of traumatic brain injury (TBI) is not small. Back on the bike, and using one of the top rated helmets from VA Tech (https://helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicycle-helmet-ratings.html). One can choose not to wear one. I'll be wearing mine. T On Tuesday, June 18, 2024 at 8:04:09 PM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote: > What I find most illuminating and encouraging about this discussion is > that it is such a wonderful example of civil discourse. On a topic that can > be quite polarizing because of each individual's experiences and emotional > investment, it is remarkable to see the conversation progress along > reasonable, respectful lines of inquiry and anecdote. Bravo to the members > of this forum! If only our society at large could be so...Rivish! > > On a side note, Edwin I did check out the Gene Hackman article and was > immediately dismayed by the headline: "Gene Hackman struck by car while > riding a bike." In fact, he was struck by *the careless driver *of said > car (unless the vehicle in question was an autonomous vehicle). Blaming the > accident on the car shifts responsibility from where it actually rests: the > driver. Careful drivers don't strike cyclists or pedestrians, and careful > people don't have accidents. At least, not when they're being careful. > > Cheers, John > > On Tuesday, June 18, 2024 at 5:25:16 PM UTC-7 Max S wrote: > >> I've ridden in city races, city traffic, trails, rural roads, down the CA >> coast, in groups and solo.... I've crashed a few times. Great anecdotes, >> horror stories, etc. We've all got them. I'm also an engineer with >> significant experience in mechanics and materials. I've supervised projects >> investigating / improving properties of sports helmets. My opinion, based >> on my riding and engineering experience, is that styrofoam cycling helmets >> sold today *can mitigate certain kinds* of injuries. But also there are >> some crash modalities where current helmet designs worsen the injuries. I've >> seen very little evidence to convince me of claims like "see the crack in >> this helmet – it saved my life" being scientifically valid. >> >> If you read the fine print on helmet manufacturers' websites, you'll see >> them being extremely cagey about their testing protocols, guarantees of any >> kind, etc. There *are* standardized testing protocols they have to >> follow, but carefully examining in detail the testing protocols and what >> they require of the materials and construction suggest to me two main >> things: 1) the test protocol is not representative of the vast majority of >> crash modalities that I am likely to encounter, and 2) the styrofoam >> material is about one to two orders of magnitude stiffer than it should be >> to properly cushion the skull upon impact. There *are* better materials, >> and they're being applied in football helmets, for example. But their >> applicability to cycling is much more limited on account of greater weight, >> duration of activity, and sustained high level of aerobic load. >> >> Now, I'm not trying to say that wearing helmets is stupid, or that not >> wearing helmets is just as safe or safer than wearing one. Part of what I'm >> saying is that we get more of what I would call "safety theater" – much >> like "security theater" we've all experienced in airports – than actual >> safety. And the margins on the product are good enough as is! And it is >> against this backdrop that the thing irritating me the most about the >> helmet conversation is the collective admonishment that many (most?) >> cyclists – and celebrities like Gordon Ramsey – bring to the issue. It only >> worsen the victim-blaming that still plagues our culture. And, as many have >> already pointed out, it is the culture and customs >> <https://youtu.be/NpVncWxyMJw> that are the biggest risk factors. >> >> - Max "stop staring at your smartphone and pay attention" in A2 >> >> On Tuesday, June 18, 2024 at 5:07:35 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote: >> >>> Good points, John. But when I read one of Grant's blagh posts I often >>> see a point/counterpoint narrative of what he feels "may" be a correct view >>> vs. what the general biking industry tries to hawk as "the only correct >>> view." I neither agree nor disagree with most of his posts. And, yes, >>> there are crash survivors who probably only lived (or at least survived in >>> a less than functionally cognitive state). Personally, I came across a >>> group of cyclists on an organized ride who were gathered around a young >>> lady who had apparently been riding in a group and was either inadvertently >>> or purposely been run off the road and into a mailbox post...and not an >>> average mailbox post, but a railroad tie that people in rural areas often >>> set in the ground to prevent mischievous adolescents from whacking them >>> down for a "prank". Her helmet lay on the ground split completely split in >>> half and she was unconscious. I learned later that she died from a severe >>> concussion. Would a helmet with different design than the compacted foam >>> have saved her life? Maybe not. There are different kinds of accidents with >>> different kinds of injuries and outcomes. But I'll stand by Grant's >>> remarks if they are read carefully. He's not saying that they don't >>> completely prevent serious injuries, he's saying that they're not >>> constructed in a way that "could" prevent more serious injuries because >>> that can get by with the current designs. >>> >>> On Tuesday, June 18, 2024 at 1:46:42 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown >>> NJ wrote: >>> >>>> George Schick wrote: " Grant posted a lengthy article in his >>>> December, '23 Blahg issue. His points revolved more around the way modern >>>> helmets are constructed, using styrofoam-like material that won't compress >>>> during an impact,.......it's a worthwhile read. He covers various tests >>>> used to measure the integrity of each helmet......:" >>>> >>>> George, with all due respect, this thread contains 2 to 3 instances of >>>> folks reporting the helmet *did it's jo*b, not including Gordo's >>>> crash.. And there are no instances where folks complained the helmet did >>>> *not* do it's job, despite what Paterson claims is incorrectly >>>> testing. >>>> >>>> I read his Blahg when it came out & I was disturbed about his POV. I >>>> think it shows his false logic about wearing a helmet, It is worthwhile >>>> only because it is a POV of an influential person. >>>> >>>> Grant could be wrong, >>>> >>>> John Hawrylak >>>> Woodstown, NJ >>>> On Tuesday, June 18, 2024 at 12:56:53 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote: >>>> >>>>> FWIW concerning this discussion, Grant posted a lengthy article in his >>>>> December, '23 Blahg issue. His points revolved more around the way >>>>> modern >>>>> helmets are constructed, using styrofoam-like material that won't >>>>> compress >>>>> during an impact, than it did wearing vs. not wearing one. At one time >>>>> or >>>>> another I've owned each of the helmets from the past that he highlights - >>>>> Skid Lid, Kucharik "hair net," etc. Whether you are pro or con helmet >>>>> wearing while cycling, it's a worthwhile read. He covers various tests >>>>> used to measure the integrity of each helmet, how it does or doesn't do >>>>> what it is supposed to do (or at least "hyped" to do), modifications made >>>>> to existing models, and other things. >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, June 15, 2024 at 4:27:36 PM UTC-5 Matthew Williams wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> [image: >>>>>> oMe3QaPR4E9b7DDpDnQFwbXwIfYum0EBKDB8bA~tplv-photomode-video-share-card:1200:630:20.jpeg] >>>>>> >>>>>> 1.1M likes, 21.3K comments. “Sound ON for this one…with #FathersDay >>>>>> tomorrow I have very important message for all the dads out there…WEAR A >>>>>> HELMET ! This week I had a really bad accident while riding my bike in >>>>>> Connecticut. I'm doing ok and did not break any bones or suffer any >>>>>> major >>>>>> injuries but I am a bit bruised up looking like a purple potato. I’m >>>>>> thankful for all the doctors, nurses and staff at Lawerence + Memorial >>>>>> Hospital in New London who looked after me and checked me out, but most >>>>>> thankful for my helmet that saved my life. Have a great Father’s Day and >>>>>> be >>>>>> safe Gx” >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.tiktok.com/@gordonramsayofficial/video/7380749671632882977> >>>>>> TikTok · Gordon Ramsay >>>>>> <https://www.tiktok.com/@gordonramsayofficial/video/7380749671632882977> >>>>>> tiktok.com >>>>>> <https://www.tiktok.com/@gordonramsayofficial/video/7380749671632882977> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.tiktok.com/@gordonramsayofficial/video/7380749671632882977> >>>>>> >>>>>> Also: “I Love Helmets!” >>>>>> >>>>>> [image: maxresdefault.jpg] >>>>>> >>>>>> Prescott Highside (I Love Helmets) >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qus2wiRUVBw> >>>>>> youtube.com <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qus2wiRUVBw> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qus2wiRUVBw> >>>>>> >>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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