I forgot to add, if you sweat too much with these types of wind barrier jackets you have too much insulation underneath. If even a thin baselayer is too much, then that's just not the right jacket for the conditions. Note, the Sportful ones I wear are made mostly with Gore Infinium, which is not like the windstopper of old. One is made of Polartec Neoshell. The barrier adds some natural water resistance, but would eventually wet out in prolonged rain. That's not the point of these jackets though, even if you get wet inside, you won't get a wind chill because the wind is not able to pass through. There's a delicate balance of finding what works for each person in terms of heat retention and vapor release. There just isn't a magic garment that will mimic a 75 degree sunny day with a light breeze, so just do the best you can.
One thing of note, is my favorite types of these garments is the short sleeve variety. Like a wind vest, but the short sleeves. I even have a SS version made with the Neoshell. These are by far the most versatile jacket/jerseys I've ever had. They serve as both jacket and jersey. Pair them with arm warmers if needed. It seems Americans don't embrace these garments so much though, as I don't know of any manufacturers here than make them. It's all European companies. That Voler thermal jacket in short sleeves, or the wind vest with short sleeves, would be awesome. Voler also offers free return shipping even if you wear the garment, or they did, I'm not sure as I have not checked lately. That's pretty good to encourage people to try their stuff. The garments I have from them are stitched and finished impeccably, made by them in central CA. On Friday, March 6, 2026 at 9:51:00 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote: > While I don't own that particular jacket Patrick, my experience is with > like principled jackets from Sportful. As I mentioned earlier, these > jackets are more of all-in-one type garments. A out facing fabric of some > sort bonded to wind barrier and a thin fleece lining, with various highly > breathable fleece panels on the side of the torso, or on the back, or in > the case of Sportful even the underside of the sleeves. With these you > don't need to wear multiple jerseys, usually just a warm baselayer is good > down to freezing on the warmest jackets. Some that have the fleece back are > for more modest cold. This system works for me because I'm most sensitive > to the effect of wind blowing over sweat. What these jackets do is create a > relatively stable climate next to the skin without being whisked away by > the cold wind. I'm someone who sweats very easily, even in the coldest of > cold, and I also take chill easily. Some people are not however. If you're > unaffected by the wind blowing over sweat then you'd be better of sticking > with what you know. > > I had tried most every non-laminated/coated windbreaker type jacket and > vest with a thick jersey and baselayer over the years, but I found they let > in too much air or I'd overheat and had to stop and take something off, and > freeze while I'm doing it. Now I never have to take the jacket off. I can't > speak to any sweat and body oils affecting these jackets. Maybe a > traditional 2/3 layer Goretex fabric was prone to that, I cant say. I think > it's a case by case thing as there's too many variables to lump all 3-layer > fabrics into one box of failures. Not everyone washes their clothing > properly either. > > As for Voler sizing on a given garment, I'd suggest emailing them and > asking for the actual garment measurements, and they'll get back to you in > a few days with them. In general they do seem to be very regular American > sizing, which to me means slightly oversized. I would suspect a medium in > the jacket if good for you, as it's called an "adaptive fit", which for > them would be in between club/loose and race/form fitting. > On Friday, March 6, 2026 at 1:19:43 PM UTC-5 [email protected] wrote: > >> I should have said: ~160, 6-foot+ torso (5'11' Asian buld). >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2026 at 11:15 AM Patrick Moore <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> ... 1. Sizing. For for someone who has a long torso and weighs ~160 ... >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2026 at 11:15 AM Patrick Moore <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Garth: Would you mind answering a couple of questions about that Voler >>> jacket? (Richard Rose and others, please chime in too.) >>> >>> https://store.voler.com/products/1010p12?variant=45399184703678 >>> >>> 1. Sizing. For for someone who has a long torso and weighs ~160, the >>> chart would indicate the Med, but if you want to wear it over 1 or 2 normal >>> weight wool jerseys (I wear Wabi Sports jerseys) without things getting too >>> tight, would a L or even XL be better? For the record, for cold weather LS >>> jerseys I wear Wabi Large Longs, which are snug but not tight, and for >>> summer where I want a looser fit, I have a Wabi XL but standard and not >>> Long cut. >>> >>> 2. Wind blocking and breathing: does the fabric really breath >>> effectively, as wool does, while still acting as a wind barrier? >>> >>> 3. Durability: does the breathing performance last the life of the >>> garment? I've read that pretty quickly Gore and other breathable fabrics >>> get "blocked" by bodily residues left by transpiration. >>> >>> One reason that I like the old knit wool + nylon panels is that wool >>> breaths very well and nylon panels in the right places block wind very well >>> and the right combination prevents sweating while also blocking heat loss >>> from wind on torso and arms, and there's no delicate technology to make >>> things stop working after a few years. >>> >>> I have a wonderful heavy knit merino wool sweater, high zip-up neck, >>> extended tail, very long arms, from Varusteleka. Perhaps I should have a >>> tailor sew nylon panels onto front torso and arms. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2026 at 6:12 AM Garth <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Having tried all sort of combos of wind jacket/vests and various layers >>>> underneath, I now much prefer wearing the modern cycling jackets that are >>>> really a hybrid jacket/jersey in one garment. While my needs are served by >>>> Sportful and their brilliant Fiandre line that use highly breathable Gore >>>> Infinium proprietary fabrics, I otherwise would try a Voler Thermal and/or >>>> Wind jacket/vests. These these have a combo of wind resistant >>>> panels(w/bonded fleece on the thermal) and stretchy highly breathable >>>> panels. Plus 2-way zippers. They have a 30 day wear and try return policy >>>> also. The thermal is a fitted jacket, meaning it's meant to drape over you >>>> without being too tight or baggy, room for some layering underneath if >>>> needed. I find though with such jackets though a single baselayer shirt of >>>> varying warmths work best to maintain a constant core temp without >>>> overheating. Even if you do briefly, unzip it just a little for a brief >>>> stint. This is where 2-way zippers are awesome ! I would say the thermal >>>> jacket is for about freezing to about 60F, depending on what's underneath. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://store.voler.com/products/1010p11? >>>> On Monday, March 2, 2026 at 1:15:40 AM UTC-5 Robert Tilley wrote: >>>> >>>>> Mission Workshop sold something like that called the Mission Cardigan. >>>>> It was merino wool and had a windproof front on the torso. It was >>>>> disappointing that the sleeves were all merino and had no windproofing on >>>>> them. This shows what it looked like: >>>>> >>>>> milled.com >>>>> <https://milled.com/mission-workshop/new-mission-cardigan-mission-workshop-z1A2jzSauYv0GyK9> >>>>> >>>>> <https://milled.com/mission-workshop/new-mission-cardigan-mission-workshop-z1A2jzSauYv0GyK9> >>>>> >>>>> <https://milled.com/mission-workshop/new-mission-cardigan-mission-workshop-z1A2jzSauYv0GyK9> >>>>> >>>>> The pre-resurrection Ibex had the Breakaway jacket which was perfect. >>>>> Decently heavy merino with windproof front. I have two still. One in use >>>>> and one in the stash. My favorite cycling jacket of all time. Arc’Teryx >>>>> made a similar jacket in their commuter line which was close but not >>>>> quite >>>>> as nice. >>>>> >>>>> Robert Tilley >>>>> San Diego, CA >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 1, 2026, at 2:37 PM, Patrick Moore <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I generally layer wool under a wind shell of greater or less thickness >>>>> depending on the temp, wind, and presence of absence of the sun (35* air >>>>> temp on shaded front porch at 8:30 am and shirt sleeves on back porch in >>>>> full morning sun at 5K feet), and with my very lightly lined Leatt shell >>>>> I >>>>> had pit zips installed so that it’s good over layers from 18*F to (remove >>>>> layers to single wool jersey) 60*F with neck and pits open. >>>>> >>>>> But what I’d really like to find is one of those old-fashioned heavy >>>>> knit wool zip up jackets with nylon wind panels on the front and the >>>>> front >>>>> of the arms, leaving the backs open for ventilation through the wool >>>>> fabric. Those are IME truly the best of both worlds: very warm, but very >>>>> breathable. >>>>> >>>>> Someone very kindly gave me an Italian one that he’d bought in the >>>>> 1980s, but it’s too short — I have a 6’2” torso on a 5’8” width, and this >>>>> is cut for a fat Italian. Does anyone know where to find such >>>>> old-fashioned >>>>> wool knit + nylon wind panel jackets? >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2026 at 5:21 PM Jay <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In anticipation of spring, or at least riding in above 0C >>>>>> temperatures, I'm looking for a new mid-weight jacket. >>>>>> >>>>>> My winter jacket is Gore, it's very warm. My current mid-weight >>>>>> jacket is screaming-yellow, some Italian brand I can't recall, but it >>>>>> has >>>>>> zero breathability. It's good for single-digit (Celsius) temps, but I >>>>>> sweat a lot inside the jacket and eventually get cold. I have a thin >>>>>> wind >>>>>> jacket I can wear around 5C+ with sufficient base layers, and it >>>>>> breathes >>>>>> better. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm looking for something between the warm Gore jacket and the wind >>>>>> jacket. Would like some wind resistance (on the front) and some >>>>>> breathability. Not racing-tight fit, but not baggie either. I don't >>>>>> have >>>>>> any non-cycling jackets that fit the bill. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e07be37b-a426-413c-a85d-0c791b9c967an%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e07be37b-a426-413c-a85d-0c791b9c967an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Patrick Moore >>>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other >>>>> writing services >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* >>>>> >>>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* >>>>> >>>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguM7j7HdP-3mUnEcm8fbd_f0kVCJZpsBDpQkgpQwUMdXQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguM7j7HdP-3mUnEcm8fbd_f0kVCJZpsBDpQkgpQwUMdXQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e7c3674e-1a5e-4bea-8972-e5e3e14e0640n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e7c3674e-1a5e-4bea-8972-e5e3e14e0640n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Patrick Moore >>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >>> services >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* >>> >>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* >>> >>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> Patrick Moore >> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing >> services >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,* >> >> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,* >> >> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.* >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ddac7649-54b3-4254-8804-d010d09acdd2n%40googlegroups.com.
