To make both an American citation and recognize cycling prowness of Eddy Merckx I suggest the Alferd Packer, a Roadeo sequelae.
ANDY Pittsburgh On Jan 7, 12:25 am, Leslie <leslie.bri...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Friday, January 6, 2012 5:19:36 PM UTC-5, Liesl wrote: > > > This is important. I work with Native people, and appropriation of > > culture by Euro-Americans without asking is just not a good thing. Note > > that the University of North Dakota officially discontinued its use of the > > Fighting Sioux nickname the first of the year. Sorry to get political > > here, but this is such a respectful community that I feel I should pipe up. > > -liesl > > Excellent point, with which I used to agree. And, not that I completely > disagree with it now, but my thoughts have evolved. (I hesitate to say, > but think I can respectfully do this, and it does relate, given GP's > consideration of 'an Indian name'.) So, I'll give it a try... > > The community I grew up in near here is called Indian Springs (not the one > north of Las Vegas); there were springs that the Cherokee used nearby, > along the 'Great Warriors Path' (predecessor of the Stage Coach road, an > extension of the Fincastle road, that became part of Boone's Wilderness > road). My elementary school's mascot was, to no surprise, the 'Redskins'. > When I was a kid, we'd play cowboys and Indians, and it wasn't a bad thing > to be an Indian. When my father was a boy, he used to hunt for arrowheads > along the stream near a known encampment site, that's a couple of miles > upstream from where that creek flows past my house. We grew up with a > romantic notion of what the 'noble savage' represented. Today, my son's > school's mascot is 'the Indians', and the middle school he was in that > feeds into it, are also the 'Redskins'. It's a big part of the early > history here. > > It wasn't meant to be disrespectful. Over half of the placenames in the > United States come from Native American names. The word 'Indian' itself is > being replaced with 'Native American', for the sake of political > correctness. > > All of my ancestors have been in East Tennessee, southwestern Virginia, or > western North Carolina since 1800; all were in North America prior to 1776, > but some where still on the Chesapeake, or elsewhere on the east coast, at > that time. Of those that I've traced back across the Atlantic, I'm > predominantly English/Scots-Irish/Welsh, with one originating from > Switzerland. The one variant: my paternal grandmother's > great-grandmother's mom, and her husband's mom, were Cherokee, part of the > ones that remained hidden here when the Trail of Tears occurred; however, > they remained away from what became the Eastern Band, and thus aren't on > the Dawes rolls. > > Where I live, there aren't a large number of African-Americans, not as you > have elsewhere in the country. There was one black student who was a senior > when I was a freshman, and there was a freshman when I was a senior, but I > never knew either of them. However, there are plenty of people around here > who are racists. I really didn't know anyone who wasn't like me, a 'WASP', > when I was growing up, and was actually afraid that, as odd as this might > sound, that I might be a racist and not know it, at that point. I went to > Parris Island, wide-eyed and apprehensive; and that was where I first got > to really know some guys that were black... and they were great fellows. I > was actually relieved, and felt foolish for having felt as I did. But later > on in infantry school, I met a couple of them weren't. But the twist was, > they presumed I was racist because I was a southern white boy, and thought > I was out to get them; the table was turned. However, there were plenty of > other people who were great, too, and a few others that weren't, and I had > the realization: people are people, and you have to take each individual > individually on their own merits. > > After that point, was when I noticed rap starting a transitioning from a > 'black-only' thing to a 'whites acting as black', is how I viewed it (I'm > sure I was late to this, had happened elsewhere earlier, and, long before > with other genre, but, I digress). I frowned on such, not as a > anti-African-American thing, but, that, other whites were being > disrespectful of 'black culture', because they weren't reserving it for > them. I viewed it as, it was wrong for me to be part of that, of being a > white guy listening to rap, not out of hate, but because I would be taking > something from them. [I can't say that I necessarily could have > articulated that at that point, it wasn't a conscious philosophy, just my > retrospective view of myself at that time.] > > But finally it dawned on me at some point along the way, that my view of > that, was actually a form of segregation. Not an active, but a passive > variety. And not only that, but by allowing, even a passive, segregation, > to continue, it could inadvertently allow (not necessarily for myself, but > for 'people in general), a fertile ground to nurture an underlying racism, > by having that segregation keep an understanding of other cultures from > developing. If you're a part of it, you're not going to throw stones at > yourself; but if you're separate from it, it's more likely that you could. > > School teaches different things at different times, as society's > perspectives change. Used to, the Native Americans were portrayed as > simple savages. But at some point, they became the 'noble savage'. The > high-school level history began to teach you about 'European domination' > coming in and shoving them out of the way. But when you start to get a bit > deeper in history, and look at the relationships that had developed among > the tribes, the picture is so much more complicated. The Five Nations, the > Iroquois were the top of the food-chain in the east. The Cherokee were > actually a subset, had been displaced, and taken over the Yuchi's turf. > The Shawnee had also been displaced, multiple times, and would go on > hunting parties, to hunt Cherokee. We were taught that Indians didn't > have a concept of land ownership, which isn't really true... they knew > who's turf was who, and they would knowing sell another tribe's turf to the > whites, as a way to get back at the other tribes. [I'm simplifying, but, > I'm trying to get to my point.] > > The other night, I watched 'the Eagle'. If you've not seen it, it's about > a Roman centurion hero in Britian, who takes his Brigantine slave north of > Hadrian's Wall to recover a gold eagle that was lost when his father's > regiment vanished. You see the interaction of the Roman invaders with the > native Bretons; you see the highlanders; you see the 'seal people' who are > reminiscent of Native Americans. Throughout the movie, I was wanting to > root for the Roman, but kind of had a 'politically correct' notion that I > should root for the Celts, or the Picts, as if we were talking about the > English doing the Native Americans wrong. But, I realize: I'm a product > of all of those. The Celts, the Norse, the Romans, the Angles, Saxons and > Jutes, the Normans. But not only them, but the Gauls, and even the > Cherokee. We just celebrated Christmas, but I realize decorating a tree > and mistletoe are appropriated from Yule; but, I'm descended from both > sides of that. Here, local rednecks like to wave a Rebel flag and claim > it's not racism, and then there are historical people who explain that it > was states' rights and not racism, but regardless, they're taking sides. > But, my great-grandparents: his father, fought for the North, his brother, > the South. His father-in-law, the South. I'm on both sides of the > argument. And by being on both sides, instead of taking sides, I can see > reason, and fault, with both sides. > > My elementary school's mascot was the Redskins. That's now a part of my > culture. By taking it from me, and saying only someone 'who is more Native > American than me' has a right to it, is a form of racism. Not in a, > lynching, format, but in a way that is allowed to be tolerated in the name > of 'being politically correct'. > > Our vision of history of chivalrous knights having tournaments is in large > part fiction, but held to be a nostalgic time when you could ride in and > save a lady; the same story told in the West, with gunslingers... sure, > some people were shot, but, the 'Old West' 's reality was different from > our nostalgic remembrance of it that Hollywood gave us. Maybe the > nostalgia isn't for the Old West, but the mental image that we remember > thinking it was when we were kids. When it was okay to be the Redskins, > and schools weren't threatened with lawsuits or accused of evil for having > an Indian in a Sioux headdress for a logo. > > I see having those bits of things pulled in, as part of an acceptance of, > of them being a part of me, uniting us, instead of dividing us. I'm not > condoning a lot of the practices that did occur during Westward Expansion, > and I wouldn't want anyone to mistakenly think I was condoning slavery of a > race; but I think that we as Americans have at least recognized a lot of > that and have, even if not head-on but obliquely, addressed much of it. > > SO, no, I don't think that Native Americans should be offended by such > imagery's usage. I'm sure that there are plenty of Native Americans who > would disagree with that, but, I would ask them to consider if that would > not be a form of self-segregation. I don't expect anyone to feel like > they have to change their minds to agree with me if they differ on this > opinion, I can agree to disagree and continue on in friendship; but, I > wanted to give pause to the thought that in the name of 'political > correctness', that it would be bad to have an Indian name. > > Nancy Ward, Dragging Canoe, Chief Benge, Chief Logan.... can't say they're > good names for a bike, but, I'm sure that there are some names that are > great. Geronimo might be overused.... Cochise was a strong warrior > leader; Apache is a name I like, or Commanche... I'd like one of > those as well or better than Rambouillet.... > > Solely my opinion, for what it's worth, no offense meant.... > > -L -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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