I too had seen the Long Ranger post on Jeff Jones' blog and noted the similarities to the Appaloosa. Two prototypes from fringe, niche, small-volume bicycle designers does not an industry change make, but I'm still excited to see the possibilities that these type of bikes are moving towards. I also work in a cargo bike speciality shop (Blue Heron Bikes in Berkeley, CA) and get to feel everyday how well *really* long bikes ride. I think long tail cargo bikes dimensions are a purely functional consideration for carrying things and passengers, but as Jones notes in his blog, riding one gets you thinking about how similar qualities might be built into single bikes for spirited riding. Especially interesting are the new generation of "midtail," slightly shorter cargo bikes that are basically halfway between a traditional single and a full-on longtail, like the Yuba Boda Boda, the Kinn Cascade Flyer, and maybe the Kona Mini? (haven't seen one of those in person).
Disclaimer: we sell Boda Bodas, and soon, the Kinn as well. I am also lucky to be a Riv local and have ridden the Appaloosa prototype, and agree with the impression that this is not simply a laid-back cruiser, but is a responsive, fun, and FAST bike with an upright seating primary seating position (the wonderful Bosco bars also let you stretch out and get aero when the situation demands), much like Jeff Jones' designs are intended (never ridden one those myself, so can't say). The long TT helps dial in the reach with the super-swept back Bosco bars, and the long chainstays assure that weight remains balanced well within the wheelbase of the bike, keeping both wheels planted on the road or trail. When I rode the proto, Keven made the comparison to engine placement in a sports car. Just going upright on a bike with "normal" chainstay length, you end up with something like an early 80's Porsche, with the engine hanging out over the rear wheels, making the front end of the car light. In bikes, this becomes a problem for attacking steep climbs, since the front wheel won't stay planted. According to Keven, extending the chainstays helps make things more balanced in turn and allows you to stay upright with your butt planted in the saddle on climbs, rather than leaning forward and scooching onto the nose of the seat in order to try to stay balanced. I think the comparison to early cruiser-geometry MTB's, which were notoriously bad climbers, is inevitable, but I don't think that these new longer bikes suffer from the same problems. My guess is that most of the problems with the early MTB's were related to the steering geometry, with super slack head angles and long-offset forks, leading to floppy front ends that wouldn't track on a climb (but came in handy on rough, high-speed descents). I haven't seen a geometry chart for the Appaloosa, but my guess is that it uses something closer to the traditional Rivendell steering geometry. On Friday, May 3, 2013 11:34:48 AM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote: > > Hope this isn't too off topic for the list. I'm still really intrigued by > the Appaloosa concept, even though I can't quite explain why. But since I > don't really have the opportunity to visit RBW headquarters and check one > out in person, I'm having to pay attention to the comments from others on > the list to try to get a better picture of it. And any other limited > information I can find that might explain the ride characteristics and > theory behind a "long bike" is obviously valuable too. So I was excited > to, by chance, just find another new bike that seems to share some of the > same thinking. > > The only other bikes that I daydream about and lust after as much as > Rivendells are Jeff Jones Space Frames. I'll bet some of you are in the > same boat, though. It's odd because, on some levels, they're about as > opposite from each other as bikes can be - the Jones' are un-traditional in > style to say the least; they use proprietary parts that can't be found on > a shelf anywhere; and they're really designed for serious off-road riding > as opposed to "occasional" off-road or versatility. On the other hand, > Jones is another rare bird in the industry in that he equates comfortable > riding position with performance; doesn't get caught up in the hype of > ultra-light weight builds; and shuns suspension completely. (Just as with > the Bridgestone mountain bikes, this non-suspended-yet-high-performance > mountain bike is still what appeals to me most, I guess, being way more of > a mountain biker than a roadie.) > > So Jeff Jones' blog has a new entry describing a concept bike he's been > working on, that he's calling the "Lone Ranger," and it's main > charachteristics are much longer top tube and chainstays than his "normal" > bikes (and room for even fatter rubber). Pretty cool. And his description > seems to echo the same things many have said about the Appaloosa - that it > is NOT a sluggish, slow, old-guy's bike, and can hold its own quite well > off-road! You can see it here: > > http://www.jonesbikes.com/?p=2828&option=com_wordpress&Itemid=58 > > So, for those of you who understand geometry better than me and/or have > ridden the Appaloosa, might this actually become a whole new direction for > the industry? > > (P.S.: I checked... Silver was a Tennessee Walking Horse, not an > Appaloosa.) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
