Unh - hunh, but it will run on the generator. If it didn't, I would go for the bad starter or motor, but it "seems" like the PF could be an issue??
Matt T ---- boB Gudgel <b...@midnitesolar.com> wrote: > Matt wrote: > > Possibly a PF question, or maybe one for Magnum - boB, > > > > One of the guys at work is (almost) running a 3/4 hp sub pump with a Magna > > AE 48. Or rather, he isn't. According to him when he first fired it up, it > > operated the pump just fine. The next time he tried, though. he couldn't > > even get a buzz out of the starter. No workee. > > > Sounds kind of like a "pump is broken or worn out" problem, doesn't it ? > > If there is enough ac voltage applied to the pump, the it should do > ~something~, or lights should dim or some > kind of sign should show itself, wouldn't you think ? Otherwise, I > would suspect it might be a surge problem. > > Is there a pilot light or something ? Maybe a fuse blew or breaker > tripped somewhere ? (when the pump went off?) > > Doesn't sound like a PF problem though... However, since you mention > it, with loads that are not a 1.0 power factor, > at least for displacement power factor, when reactive phase shift is > involved, the inverter must be able to "sink" current > from the stored reactive energy as well as be a source to the motor. > The Magnum does that just fine, as does any other > decent inverter. > > Maybe Tony, Eldon or Gary at Magnum has seen this before ? 425-353-8833 > > boB > > > > > > > > The inverter runs all the other loads in the house fine, just not the pump. > > He can run the pump directly from a 7 kW generator with no issues. > > So, do you think we're looking at a power factor deficit,(I think not), a > > motor starter problem or an inverter issue? I have to admit to being > > somewhat baffled by this one because it ran the pump once, but not after. > > > > Matt T > > > > > > ---- boB Gudgel <b...@midnitesolar.com> wrote: > > > >> boB Gudgel wrote: > >> > >> >>So, because of the different ways of specifying PF, it is always best > >> to think of Power Factor as being the ratio of real (in phase) power, or > >> VA to reactive power >>(VARS or "Volt Ampere Reactive"). That will > >> work in all cases. > >> > >> > >> OOOps ! See, this can get confusing. Reverse what I just said Power > >> Factor... " Definition: The ratio of true power to apparent power" as > >> David Brearley had just posted. Otherwise, that calculation can give > >> you an answer that is GREATER than 1.0 and you don't want that ! > >> > >> Had to eat some of my words. I just wanted to point out that the phase > >> shift method was called DPF. Didn't Ian Woodenden do an article on PF > >> recently too ? If not, he or someone probably should in one of the two > >> HP magazines. > >> > >> boB > >> > >> > >>> R. Walters wrote: > >>> > >>>> Power factor expresses the time difference between voltage peak and > >>>> current peak on each of their sine waves. If both current and voltage > >>>> waves are "in time", (their wave peaks match up) power factor is 1. > >>>> If one is ahead or behind the other, it's not. Think about an > >>>> electric motor: we hit it with a voltage wave, and a fraction of a > >>>> second later, it actually moves, and the current wave happens. There > >>>> is a little lag there. Resistive loads like lights have very little > >>>> lag, and big electric motors coming up to speed can have horrible PF. > >>>> > >>> This definition of power factor only applies for linear loads with > >>> only inductance or capacitance (with resistance) and is called > >>> "Displacement Power Factor (DPF) and you will see that on some power > >>> meters. > >>> > >>> For non-linear loads, like battery chargers or computer power supplies > >>> without PF Correction, the current waveform (on an O-scope) looks > >>> nothing like a sine or cosine wave. The current "spikes up" at the > >>> AC voltage peaks. It actually *looks like* it might be in phase, BUT > >>> the current and the voltage do NOT look the same. It's non-linear. > >>> Lower than 1.0 power factor for sure. > >>> > >>> For a grid tie inverter, resistive heater or any load that has a PF of > >>> 1.0, the current and voltage waveform will both look exactly the same > >>> AND there will be no phase shift. They are both linear and all > >>> current and voltage is in phase at every point in the AC cycle. > >>> > >>> So, because of the different ways of specifying PF, it is always best > >>> to think of Power Factor as being the ratio of real (in phase) power, > >>> or VA to reactive power (VARS or "Volt Ampere Reactive"). That will > >>> work in all cases. (Real Vs. Apparent power is the same thing). > >>> Apparent power is what you get when you multiply > >>> your RMS meter's Voltage by the RMS current and is called VA Volt > >>> Amperes) V x A will be the highest measured number, that is unless > >>> the PF = 1.0 in which > >>> case both will measure the same. > >>> > >>> Some of that measured VA, or apparent power will be "in phase" and is > >>> the "real" or "true" power. Some of that VA may be reactive, > >>> (inductive or capacitive that is) and is the "out of phase" portion. > >>> Capacitive and inductive reactance is ALWAYS 90 degrees out of phase > >>> in current and voltage.... It's just a matter of how MUCH of your > >>> power is 0 degrees phase shift and how MUCH of that VA is + or - 90 > >>> degrees out of phase. If ALL of the current is in phase with the > >>> voltage, then > >>> the power factor is 1.0. That is, if you lay them on top of each > >>> other, they will look the same on an oscilloscope if power factor = 1.0 > >>> > >>> It can get way more complicated that this too, but that's basically > >>> it. Feel free to add to this. > >>> > >>> boB > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> power meters. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> There is much more to it, with reactance, "real" and "imaginary" > >>>> numbers?!, etc. but basically, we wrenches need to know that > >>>> everybody wants Power factor to be close to 1. > >>>> Obviously there isn't PF on DC, and it is my understanding that most > >>>> inverters can operate at most power factors. Not 100% sure, but I > >>>> think GT inverters would help not hurt the PF problem in most > >>>> situations. > >>>> > >>>> Correct me on any and all of this, Oh fellow wrenches, > >>>> > >>>> R. Walters > >>>> Solarray.com > >>>> NABCEP # 04170442 > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Jul 30, 2009, at 9:19 AM, boB Gudgel wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Ron Young wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Ok, so all seem to be in agreement more or less. How do I break it > >>>>>> to British Columbia Hydro? :-| > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I think they must be misunderstanding what they are asking for but > >>>>>> the question is in the section for PV and on the same line as the > >>>>>> total output in Kwh of the PV. Power Factor % > >>>>>> > >>>>> It was most likely just a trick question. > >>>>> > >>>>> You're gonna fool them, though ! :) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> boB > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> I'll contact them and see where this goes but I don't fully > >>>>>> understand what power factor is which will make it hard to argue my > >>>>>> case. My understanding is that it is the difference between what > >>>>>> the utility supplies to a residence vs. the actual loads being used > >>>>>> by that residence expressed as a percentage. I came across the > >>>>>> following course offering by SEI that discusses Power Factor with > >>>>>> reference to PV: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> POWER FACTOR AS IT RELATES TO SOLAR INSTALLATIONS Presented By: > >>>>>> Michael Smith of Alpine Management Systems > >>>>>> This session will deal with power factor: What is power factor? > >>>>>> What causes low power factor? Why improve your power factor? This > >>>>>> session will explain the role of power factor correction as it > >>>>>> applies to solar installations. There are currently over 67,000 > >>>>>> KVAR installations in 26 countries resulting in phenomenal energy > >>>>>> savings with a corresponding reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. > >>>>>> Session includes several KVAR installations and the resultant > >>>>>> savings. > >>>>>> http://www.solarenergy.org/workshops/docs/industry08_trainingdetails.pdf > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Ron > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 30-Jul-09, at 7:43 AM, Wind-sun.com wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> There is no such thing as a power factor for DC or for panels. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> .................................................................................................. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 > >>>>>>> Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ > >>>>>>> .................................................................................................. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> *From:* Ron Young <mailto:solarea...@solareagle.com> > >>>>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:45 PM > >>>>>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Power Factor > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Can anyone point me in the direction to find the power factor for > >>>>>>> Sanyo HIT N 205 panels? The utility is requesting it on a net > >>>>>>> metering interconnection application. Ron Young > >>>>>>> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >>>>>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > >>>>>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Options & settings: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> List-Archive: > >>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> List rules & etiquette: > >>>>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >>>>>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Check out participant bios: > >>>>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> > >>>>>>> > 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