Here's the latest comments from my customer on this. Seems to be just a problem under reduced array output. Thanks again for everybody's valuable input.
R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer Begin forwarded message: > From: "Roger L. Johnson" <rogerjohn...@itltd.com> > Date: April 5, 2010 9:02:03 AM MDT > To: Ray Walters <r...@solarray.com> > Cc: Andy O'Reilly <a...@positiveenergysolar.com> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems > > Ray – I appreciate all the comments and recommendations relative to the grid > voltage parameters. However, in my opinion, there is no data to support the > contention that this is a source of the FX BULK CHARGING behavior. My reasons > for coming to this conclusion are the following: > > After a week and a half of careful monitoring, I have not seen any grid > input/output voltage which varies from 123 +1 VAC. > No. 1 has been the case under all current conditions, ranging from heavy > house load use to sell mode currents as high as 10 aac. > We have never seen a “STOP SELL” code which indicates over or under limit VAC. > > We have now had over a week of consecutive days of NO SNOW LOAD, that is to > say, the arrays have been clear every morning. We start each morning with a > battery voltage of 25.6 which, as the first sun falls on the arrays, quickly > moves up to the FLOAT level and the new array CC’s go into GT MODE and the > systems starts selling. The system sells consistently depending on cloud > cover and stops selling at the end of the day (sunset). The STOP SELL code at > the end of the day is No. 8 or SAVE COMMAND (per the MATE manual). > > Yesterday (Sunday), we generated 31 kWH off the arrays and sold 5 kWH back to > KCE over the 24 hour period. We had a fairly heavy “house load” yesterday > since we pumped the deep well for about 2 hours. This morning, we started > selling at 0815 hours and expect to be selling throughout the day. > > I took the time to go over my daily logs on the system since the “turn on” in > December. The issue associated with the BULK CHARGING CYCLE seems to always > have been associated with heavy snow load and the slow melt off during the > following days. This takes us back to the question that OutBack seems to have > trouble answering: What are the conditions (parameter values) that FX uses to > kick the system into a day long BULK CHARGING CYCLE? During the times when I > experienced this behavior, I saw STOP SELL CODES of 7,8, and 10. Again we > have never seen code No. 3, VAC over voltage. If we knew this information, we > might very well be able to understand the behavior. > > In summary, I do not think we have a system issue as much as I think we have > a vendor issue (not willing to disclose needed info). I suggest that I > continue to monitor the system on a daily basis and I will let you know if we > experience anything interesting. I do think it is worthwhile for you to > continue to obtain the information relative to the FX BULK CHARGING criteria > from OutBack. > > RLJ > > > on 4/4/10 10:53 PM, Ray Walters at r...@solarray.com wrote: > >> Here's something else that would be easy to try, and wouldn't hurt anything. >> >> R. Walters >> r...@solarray.com >> Solar Engineer >> >> >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Steve Higgins" <shigg...@outbackpower.com> >>> Date: April 4, 2010 10:02:43 AM MDT >>> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems >>> Reply-To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> >>> Not that I'm aware of... We just use it as a quick fix for those customers >>> with a less than perfect grid connection. Unfortunately with some grid >>> connections even this doesn't fix the problem. >>> >>> It Open the voltage window from 108 to 132 and frequency to +/- 2 Hz. >>> >>> It would be nice to know what the disconnect, or stop sell reason is... it >>> would give us a better understanding of what is going on. >>> >>> >>> Steve Higgins. >>> Sr Application Engineer. >>> Sub-Saharan Africa Business Dev Mgr. >>> Outback Power Systems. >>> 19009 62nd Ave Ne >>> Arlington Wa 98223 >>> 360-618-4313 >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of >>> penobscotso...@midmaine.com >>> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 8:26 AM >>> To: RE-wrenches >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems >>> >>> That's a great tip Steve. Is there a downside to changing this setting? >>> >>> Daryl >>> >>> >>> >>>> Ray, >>>> >>>> If you go to the Status FX Sell menu what is the disconnect reason when >>>> it does this? >>>> >>>> Also have you set the Grid Tie Authority from IEEE to User, when >>>> customers are all the way out at the end of the line sometimes the grid >>>> isn't as pretty and UL1741 and 1547 require so if the Grid Tie Authority >>>> is IEEE the inverter can disconnect prematurely. Changing this to User >>>> will open up the disconnect windows a bit so you don't disconnect >>>> prematurely. >>>> >>>> Steve Higgins. >>>> Sr Application Engineer. >>>> Sub-Saharan Africa Business Dev Mgr. >>>> Outback Power Systems. >>>> 19009 62nd Ave Ne >>>> Arlington Wa 98223 >>>> 360-618-4313 >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray >>>> Walters >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:54 AM >>>> To: RE-wrenches >>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems >>>> >>>> I considered that there could be something happening due to the grid, as >>>> this guy is way out on the end of the line going into his own utility >>>> transformer. >>>> But then the inverter should show a fault light, and it should try back >>>> again, once the grid voltage drops. >>>> Instead it initiates a full charge cycle and will not connect till the >>>> next day. >>>> >>>> R. Walters >>>> r...@solarray.com >>>> Solar Engineer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 30, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote: >>>> >>>>> HI Ray, >>>>> >>>>> Have you checked the grid voltage to see if there is variation during >>>> the day which would be enough to kick the inverters out of connection? >>>>> >>>>> Brian Teitelbaum >>>>> AEE Solar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray >>>> Walters >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:43 AM >>>>> To: RE-wrenches >>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems >>>>> >>>>> We currently have a Grid Tie system with a pair of Outback inverters >>>> that are regularly dropping out of sell mode, and letting the arrays >>>> spend all day charging the battery bank. >>>>> It seems to do this several times a week, and the customer is losing >>>> substantial production, and gassing the batteries too much. >>>>> It will reset itself the next day, or the customer resets it by >>>> turning off the inverters manually. >>>>> The system is 24 v, with an old array of 1800 watts running through 2 >>>> FM60s, and a new array of 2800 watts running through another pair of >>>> FM60s. >>>>> The battery bank is HUP about 4100 Ah @ 24 v (3 strings of 1375 Ah >>>> each) Big battery, I know, but the customer is an electrical engineer, >>>> who wanted maximum storage capacity. >>>>> >>>>> Outback tech support has not resolved the issue, and this has turned >>>> into several service calls, and customer frustration. >>>>> We've tried running the controllers through the HUB, and also >>>> independently, and that doesn't make a difference. >>>>> I have numerous Outback GT installs dating back to 2003, and have >>>> never had a problem like this. >>>>> Any help or advice would as always be greatly appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you in advance fellow Wrenches, >>>>> >>>>> R. Walters >>>>> r...@solarray.com >>>>> Solar Engineer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Options & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >>>>> >>>>> Check out participant bios: >>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Options & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >>>>> >>>>> Check out participant bios: >>>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Options & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >>>> >>>> Check out participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> >>>> >>>> MESSAGE CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: >>>> This message (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic >>>> Communication Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. sections 2510-2521, is confidential, >>>> and may also be protected by attorney-client or other privilege. 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