Jesse,
Sometimes the best thing you can do for a customer is document, in
writing, what's wrong. And walk away if they aren't willing to fix it.
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com
On 8/24/2012 6:36 PM, Jesse Dahl wrote:
Im with you on the wisdom of it.
The problem with my area is that people maybe good a grid tie, but
there are very few people that understand the off-grid applications
(DT is the only person I think is worth listening to.) The contractor
they chose was the only contractor the home owners spoke to that
lacked any type of certification, not that that means anything. The
homeowner told them what they wanted to do and the contractor said
okay. Even though it was a poor idea. I was shown email
conversations between the two. Of course there is always two sides to
these stories...
The system was supposed to use two wind generators to charge two
battery banks and then feed to FX3048 Outback inverters. Both
inverters were also tied to the homes panelboard to help charge the
bank in-case of low wind. The two Outbacks fed a 100A panelboard that
had a few loads from the home wired to it (well pump, furnace, sump,
various receptacles) The panel also has a bypass switch that allows
it to bypass the inverters all together and use straight grid power to
run the loads.
The homeowner supplied the wind and the controllers,
the contractor supplied the inverters and electrical BOS and the 16 MK
12V batteries. Another contractor came up to program the setpoints.
I have mentioned jobs like this before on the list, and I keep finding
them up here, its getting a little old.
I told them today to get both generators up to at least 80 feet or to
scrap both a install a 4kW array. I also said if the want to hire me,
what I say goes and if I say it all comes out to start over, that's
what happens.
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:40 PM, <toddc...@finestplanet.com
<mailto:toddc...@finestplanet.com>> wrote:
i am not understanding the 'wisdom' of using non-grid tie
inverters in this application. it is pretty easy to modify the
inverters (board change out) to grid tie models, which would allow
the inverter's to transfer the loads to the grid (internal
transfer switch) and 'sleep' until there is an outage to back up.
the only additional use the system would bring to their bill is
re-floating the batteries occasionally.
with no renewable input (except silly, yard-art wind
gennys), basically they have an expensive whole-house ups. i
wonder what the intention or original design was supposed to do?
todd
On Friday, August 24, 2012 9:14am, "Jesse Dahl"
<dahlso...@gmail.com <mailto:dahlso...@gmail.com>> said:
I do not want to take this on! The wind, from what I have
gathered is an absolute bust. Just doing a little online research
it seems like they are getting next to nothing from the wind
generators.
From my little understanding of the system and reading replies, I
would say they are buying power, losing 30% of it and then
powering loads.
This system was installed by a contractor in Duluth, MN.
Jesse
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:31 AM, Kent Osterberg <k...@coveoregon.com
<mailto:k...@coveoregon.com>> wrote:
Two 1-kW wind generators doesn't sound like enough to provide
energy for a household except possibly in the best
circumstances. If there isn't much wind, the system is getting
most of it's energy from the grid. The utility bill would go
up even if they were using the same amount of energy in the
house. Batteries are energy losers!
What Dave and others have warned about kWh metering issues is
also true. The new digital meters have many capabilities and
the default for most of them is to record energy going in
either direction as energy consumed. Since they are
programmable, the same meter can be used to record net energy
- behave like most disk-type meters; ignore energy in one
direction - behave like a detented meter; or record both
incoming energy and outgoing energy separately - a two
register meter.
Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com <http://www.bluemountainsolar.com>
On 8/24/2012 6:26 AM, Jesse Dahl wrote:
The system only uses grid power to charge batteries, they
have two FX3048T in parallel so I don't think the meter is
the issue.
They did send me a picture of the two wind towers, one is
20 feet off the ground and one is 60 feet off the
ground... No wind would be an understatement.
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 24, 2012, at 7:43 AM, David Katz
<dk...@aeesolar.com <mailto:dk...@aeesolar.com>> wrote:
Check to see if their meter goes backwards. Some
utility meters actually charge for power when you are
selling.
Or maybe they have no wind and a new big flat screen
tv that they leave on all the time.
David Katz
----- Reply message -----
From: "Jesse Dahl" <dahlso...@gmail.com
<mailto:dahlso...@gmail.com>>
To: "Wrenches" <RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback with grid charging
Date: Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:28 pm
Hello,
I got a call from a family today about a system they
had installed recently and they think they have a
problem. They claim their electric bill has just about
doubled since the system has been installed due to
outback using the grid to power the loads instead of
the battery bank. They claim the MATE always shows
the system buying the exact amount as any load on the
system draws. Due to the distance from my shop, I
would like to get any ideas on what could cause this
before I drive all the way there.
What I know about the system:
2 - outback inverters, 48v
2 - whisper 500 wind generators with whisper charge
controllers
16 - MK 12v AGMS (8/inverter)
I guessing setting, but if anyone has seen this
before, I'd like to narrow it down before the drive.
Thanks eh!
Jesse
Sent from my iPad!!!
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