Re: [RE-wrenches] Article 690, or The Haves Vs. Have Nots

Wed, 30 Apr 2014 08:22:34 -0700

Inverter ground fault fuses certainly do blow. What is causing your string fuses to go? 

At 10:17 AM 4/30/2014, you wrote:

"​
An AC breaker is far more likely to trip than a DC string fuse"


I completely disagree. We have never, not once, 
had to reset a tripped inverter output circuit 
AC breaker that I know of, but have replaced 
many dozens of DC string fuses and GFCI fuses in 
inverters, most of the time for undiagnosed 
failures.​ There is a reason we keep a good 
supply of 1A, 15A, and 20A Littlefuses in a drawer here.


Jason Szumlanski


Â



On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Drake 
<<mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> 
wrote:
There are good reasons to want to put AC 
combiners under modules, but some reasons not to want to.

​​

An AC breaker is far more likely to trip than a 
DC string fuse, due to the surge availability. 
As a PV system is designed to last a minimum of 
25 years, the installer might not be the one to 
sort out problems decades down the line.



A strategy I prefer would be to use a SolaDeck 
as a junction box. Run small wires to a convenient AC combiner location.



At 12:43 PM 4/29/2014, you wrote:

Dave


I agree, in the case of microinverters, you 
already have a main PV System disconnect at the 
Load Panel to shut down the system that is 
readily accesible.  I would consider the 
disconnect on the roof as a supplemental 
disconnect for the purposes of maintenance by 
authorized personal that only needs to be accessible.Â


Bill



On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Dave Click 
<<mailto:davecl...@fsec.ucf.edu>davecl...@fsec.ucf.edu > wrote:
I think 240.24(A)(4) allows the installation of 
the inverter OCPDs in the SolaDeck hidden under a module.

240.24 Location in or on Premises.

(A) Accessibility. Overcurrent devices shall be 
readily accessible and shall be installed so 
that the center of the grip of the operating 
handle of the switch or circuit breaker, when 
in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m 
(6 ft 7 in.) above the floor or working 
platform, unless one of the following applies:

...

(4) For overcurrent devices adjacent to 
utilization equipment that they supply, access 
shall be permitted to be by portable means.



And if panelboards / fused safety switches are 
allowed to have screwed-down covers over the 
OCPDs, I'd think that installing a removable 
module over these OCPDs would meet NEC. I guess 
an AHJ could argue that this requires TWO 
covers be removed, unlike a panelboard or a switch.

DKC

On 2014/4/29, 11:15, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

690.9(D) is not applicable to the original 
discussion because we were talking about an 
Inverter output circuit, not a PV Source or Output circuit.
690.34 may apply if you call a SolaDeck with 
breakers a junction box, but I can see that 
being a stretch in the mind of many.
My and Ray's question about the screws on the 
SolaDeck cover itself requiring a tool to 
render it accessible is still an issue if the 
breakers themselves need to be "readily 
accessible," but that would also apply to a 
Midnite MNPV, which also has a cover with a screw.


Jason Szumlanski

On 4/28/2014 5:57 PM, Bill Brooks wrote:

Read 690.9(D) and 690.34. Not sure where this 
“hysteria­run for the border” sentiment is coming from.


Â
690.9(D) Photovoltaic Source and Output Circuits. Listed PV
overcurrent devices shall be required to provide overcurrent
protection in PV source and output circuits. The overcurrent
devices shall be accessible but shall not be required to
be readily accessible.
Â
690.34 Access to Boxes. Junction, pull, and outlet boxes
located behind modules or panels shall be so installed that
the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible
directly or by displacement of a module(s) or panel(s) secured
by removable fasteners and connected by a flexible
wiring system.
Â
This is not a change. Please help me understand the concern.
Â
Bill Brooks.
Â
Â

From: 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters

Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 2:23 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] (no subject)
Â

Interesting so does "require a tool" include 
taking a screw off the cover plate of the combiner box, too?
What a game changer.  I'm going to Mexico 
for my next project; I'll actually enjoy even 
more being the sole AHJ on the project.Â




R.Ray

Walters

CTO, Solarray,

Inc

Nabcep Certified PV Installer,


Licensed Master

Electrician

Solar Design

Engineer

<tel:303%20505-8760>303

505-8760
On 4/28/2014 2:52 PM, Michael Morningstar wrote:


Readily accessible is now defined in the 2014 
NEC. Installing OCPD’s underneath a module 
is a major faux paux, and I can’t imagine 
any AHJ thinking otherwise. Having to remove 
a module in order to reset a breaker, what a drag.

Â

"Capable of being reached quickly for 
operation, renewal or inspection without 
requiring those concerned to use a tool, to 
climb over, remove obstacle or other.”

Â
Michael
Â
Â
Â



On Apr 28, 2014, at 10:29 AM, William Miller 
<<mailto:will...@millersolar.com>will...@millersolar.com > wrote:




You call it a solar panel, I call it a glass j-box cover plate.
William
Miller Solar



On Apr 28, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
<<mailto:ja...@fafcosolar.com>ja...@fafcosolar.com> wrote:

If that is the interpretation,
I don't see how the breakers are "readily accessible" in a SolaDeck
mounted anywhere, regardless of whether it is under a module. It
requires removal of four screws (using a tool) to access the breakers
inside the enclosure. It's all up to the AHJ. It has not been an issue
locally here. I can see how other jurisdictions may not
concur.



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