Hi Dan, Curious about your statement on no EQ for AGM. FullRiver, Rolls and many others have a EQ or sometimes called "conditioning charge” or something similar, that is recommended for specific situations. I am not saying that all AGM can/should have a EQ/conditioning charge. Some can, some can’t, OEM/model specific.
For example I was given the following info from Full River ( 400-6 model) if the batteries are showing signs of low capacity. While they mention this low capacity situation in the manual, they don’t list the following info. I had to call them to get it. For 48v battery: Charge to 60v 4-6 hrs Charge first thing in the am 3 days in a row 1 x year Jay Peltz Power > On Nov 22, 2018, at 8:23 AM, Dan Fink <danbo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > All; I forgot to note that with the AGMs a full equalization that could > temporarily stave off problems across the massively paralleled small-capacity > batteries is not possible. > > I would probably spend a couple hours, no more, load testing it while > watching on a thermal imager. I don't have the luxury of a Fluke battery > tester. > > I would show the customer why it was designed incorrectly, show the test > results and FLIR photos, and walk away. I would never take on the job of > battery replacement in this situation....you will be the loser who "wrecked > his system." > > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 05:00 Ray <r...@solarray.com <mailto:r...@solarray.com> > wrote: > Regardless of the Amazing Batcap 30 yr claims debunked by Dan, a system > wired in the manner described (5 batteries in parallel, then series > connecting the sets of 5 for 48 v) is just not going to charge and discharge > evenly. Its violated the no more than 4 parallel strings rule, so I'm > surprised it lasted even 5 years. My guess is that some of the > batteries are toast and some may have a bit of life in them, since they were > so grossly imbalanced, so a neighbor might be able to use a few of the best > ones for a couple more years. Ultimately the rule in off grid solar is > "Batteries are the Weakest Link". The customer is not going to have a decent > experience until they replace that mess with a properly sized and wired > battery bank from a reputable manufacturer. > > I won't take on new clients if we can't get the system up to snuff. I don't > need those oh so predictable calls that the power is off again. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > On 11/21/18 1:06 AM, Dan Fink wrote: >> Hello All; I would question the client about the origin of this battery >> bank. New, used, how long in storage and in service, etc. If he bought these >> new, that's a very expensive battery bank! >> >> Usually when I've run into banks of massively parallel, low amp-hour sealed >> lead acid batteries, the origin was "a great surplus deal on a whole bunch >> of batteries from wheelchairs/UPS units/manufacturer overrun etc." >> >> My BS meter on the manufacturer Batcap was triggered by a few things.... >> >> -The company is focused on selling audiophiles xxxscratch thatxxx punks with >> car stereos so loud they set off car alarms 6 spots down. They need lots of >> amps right now to thump that bass. >> >> - The company name Batcap targets the capacitor boost market for this >> application, but actually a dedicated battery is a great idea, as it would >> recharge quickly from the (often up-sized) car alternator. But some folks >> seem to think the name implies there's a capacitor involved. There isn't. >> Sneaky language in the company name. >> >> - Sealed, low internal resistance, 100-125 amp-hours. Sounds like a stock >> AGM to me, compared to a VRSLA. >> >> - Spec sheet contains grammatical errors that indicate the writer does not >> speak English as a first language. >> >> - "Solar" seems to have been added to the website and battery label stickers >> as an afterthought....and 30 years cycle life in a solar application? Has >> Batcap been around for 30 years? Sounds like somebody importing Asian AGMs >> and sticking them with new stickers. >> >> DAN FINK >> Buckville Energy Consulting, Box Prairie CO 970-672-4342 >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 23:28 Mick Abraham <m...@abrahamsolar.com >> <mailto:m...@abrahamsolar.com> wrote: >> Hello, Drake & All~ >> >> Drake described his service dilemma about batteries bought elsewhere & >> whether to correct the original hinky pack wiring (copied below). My reply >> below may seem cynical & I may seem too eager to declare the existing >> battery as: "Failed". Call me jaded. >> >> Mick's $0.02 is: If there's no amp-hour monitor in the system, I suggest you >> first try to persuade the homeowner to buy a metering shunt & a modest >> amp-hour meter such as the Tri-Metric--which could be used to measure & >> display the battery bank's amp-hour capacity. If the client won't approve >> that expenditure (& hourly labor for explanations), the service tech is >> hamstrung. Nobody can measure the health of a battery bank by just looking >> at it or talking about it...and clients sometimes receive the inevitable >> "battery bad news" if they are shown the diminished capacity on a digital >> display after an equitably managed "pump & dump". >> >> Your thought, Drake, of holding back on any re-wiring of the battery >> pack...seems prudent...until the first set of amp-hour measurements are >> recorded as a baseline. From there...a common pattern is a series of >> attempted remediation efforts--all for pay, of course--until the homeowner >> acknowledges that it's time to start afresh. >> >> Oops, I left out an important step: getting a read on whether the client has >> the money for new batteries or not. I'm personally terrible at getting that >> reconnaissance done early enough. If the client isn't materially blessed to >> be able to get new batteries, they might be better off spending limited >> funds on fuel for the engine generator instead of on battery testing & >> tutorials. >> >> The Wrench List is the Bomb~ >> >> Mick Abraham, Proprietor >> www.abrahamsolar.com <http://www.abrahamsolar.com/> >> >> Landline: 970-731-4675 >> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584 >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Drake <drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org >> <mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>> >> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> >> Cc: >> Bcc: >> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:41:17 -0500 >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> An owner of an existing system has a bank of twenty, 100 AH, 12 V Deep cycle >> batteries of the Batcap >> <http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html> >> <http://www.xstaticbatcap.com/what-is-a-batcap-.html>brand. >> >> The bank is made up of four sets of 5 batteries in parallel to produce 500 >> AH battery sets at 12 V. These four parallel sets are then wired in series >> to give a 48 V nominal bank. >> >> The battery voltages vary from around 13 to 15 volts. The bank is about 5 >> years old. The CEO of Batcap told the system owner that these batteries have >> lasted up to 30 years in solar applications, so he has high expectations for >> these batteries being around for a while. >> >> My first impulse is to rewire the bank in a normal series - parallel >> configuration. But there are too many strings to do this without a bus bar. >> Besides, the batteries are likely damaged, and rewiring them might cause the >> bank to exhibit unsuspected problems. How much money is worth putting into >> this bank? $0? >> >> The owner seems like a reliable guy who likely hired the wrong installer. He >> could use some help. What would you do in this situation? Rewire the bank, >> leave it well enough alone or run for the hills. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Drake >> >> <>Drake Chamberlin >> Athens Electric LLC >> OH License 44810 >> CO License 3773 >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV >> 740-448-7328 >> http://athens-electric.com/ <http://athens-electric.com/> >> >> ᐧ >> ᐧ >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > <http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html> > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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