Ray,
Per NEC 480 batteries below 48 volts didn't need a readily accessible
disconnect within site of the batteries. That's unchanged in the 2020
Code, you don't have to have a readily accessible disconnect within site
of the batteries. That's a good thing considering the environment near
lead acid batteries. A disconnect switch still isn't required in the
48-volt battery room.
Yes, if you put a 48-volt battery in a one or two-family dwelling, an
outside (remote) emergency disconnect is required. That is going to be a
pain that may add hundreds of dollars to the cost of small off-grid
systems. You might get away with a mushroom switch and a 24-volt tap on
the batteries to activate a remote trip breaker. But considering that it
is a fire-safety related circuit it is probably best to spend the money
for the bird box.
At the very least 480.7(B) should make off-grid folks think about using
a power shed. The power shed is not a dwelling so 2020 NEC 480.7(B)
doesn't apply.
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar
On 10/19/2020 8:34 PM, Ray wrote:
I've used Blue Planet, so I guess I have used an actual UL listed ESS,
even though they don't include the charge controller or inverter. I
knew they were UL, but I double checked and it is the UL 9540 standard
mentioned in 706. So in this case, we could ignore 480, but are held
to 706. Regardless of 480 or 706, both are possibly requiring the
outside remote disconnect. Besides Midnite's remote trip breakers, and
the dreaded Bird House, what other options are there to meet this new
requirement? Can the Blue Planet be tripped remotely?
and still my initial question:
Under 480.7, are batteries below 60v still required to have the remote
disconnect? They are exempted from having a disconnect at all in
480.7(A)......quite confusing.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 10/19/20 7:06 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
Wrenches
Blue planet are fire and UL listed systems both on there 48 Volt and
the LX flavors
Jerry
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 5:51 PM Ray <r...@solarray.com
<mailto:r...@solarray.com>> wrote:
The notes in the NEC 2020 Handbook for article 706 clearly state
that 706 only covers ESS which is an assembly of components, and
that the total assembly must be listed under UL 9540.
Further it states: "/A group of separate components that includes
storage batteries, that is provided with support systems (racks),
charge controllers, and inverters, and that does NOT have an
overall listing as an ESS is a storage battery system and as such
is subject to the requirements of article 480"/
and just in case someone says the notes don't matter, 706.5 says:
"/Energy Storage systems shall be listed"/.
So, since I have never used an actual listed ESS, I'm back to
480. Specifically, 480.7 (A) says we need a disconnect for
batteries over 60 vdc (48v should be exempt) and then 480.7(B)
says houses need to have an outside disconnect for the batteries
labeled "Emergency Disconnect".
So here's the real question: Does 480.7(A) exempt us from
480.7(B)?
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 3/9/19 8:08 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
Hi Glenn, I don't completely agree with your interpretation of
ESS systems and the application of Article 706. Yes, an ESS
/could/ provide 120/240 VAC (e.g. the Powerwall), but the
figures in Article 690 show three different configurations where
the output of the ESS is not AC, and where the ESS disconnect
comes before any power electronics (like a multimode inverter,
as shown in the AC and DC coupled systems) or loads (as shown in
the stand-alone system). Are those ESS connected to other
systems which utilize stored energy to provide AC power? Yes,
but the key is "connected to other systems" - in many cases the
ESS only provides DC. In fact the definition of ESS clearly
states this - it /can/ have AC or DC output, and it /may/
include power electronics (but may not).
My understanding is that the 60 volt limit (which is obviously
problematic in a world where 48 VDC batteries and ESS are very
common) was inserted in order to exempt other devices that store
energy (such as UPS, or battery backup in fire alarms/exit
signage/etc.) from the 706 requirements.
Cheers,
Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
(520) 204-6639
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org
SEI Professional Services
http://www.seisolarpros.com <http://www.seisolarpros.com>
On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 4:07 PM Glenn Burt <glenn.b...@glbcc.com
<mailto:glenn.b...@glbcc.com>> wrote:
Hi Ray,
This is a conversation I have had some time ago with a
number of my fellow inspectors and code experts. When the
2017 NEC came out, I agreed with Mike Holt and Bill Brooks'
assessment that the new article was poorly written and did
not apply to most systems being installed today. After much
discussion through my Cadmus network of authorities, it
emerged that indeed 706 apples to the typical residential
systems.
So Energy Storage Systems (ESS) are the point of article
706, and I believe that the key point is that the SYSTEM is
generating AC voltage of 120VAC or 240VAC, making the system
fall under article 706.
Batteries themselves are minimally covered by NEC 480, NFPA
1, and the IFC as applicable locally.
So, the bottom line is that the new article does cover the
work we do when systems provide or interface with 120VAC or
above (making the system operation exceeding the 60V AC
trigger).
My initial problem was believing that the article applied to
a component (the battery bank), and not the system (all
components taken together as a generator/storage system). It
is an easy misunderstanding to make.
Hope this helps!
-Glenn Burt
-----Original Message-----
From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> On
Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2019 12:41 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Cc: Bill Brooks <bi...@energy808.com
<mailto:bi...@energy808.com>>; Bill Brooks
<billbroo...@yahoo.com <mailto:billbroo...@yahoo.com>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] NEC for Batteries < 60v ??
Hi Everyone;
I'm updating all my verbage on plansets, and I just realized
that the newly created article 706 covering Energy Storage
Systems is only for Over 60 VDC (706.1) Also article 480
for batteries only requires disconnecting means over 60 VDC
?! (480.7). I'm not about to not have a disconnect, so now
that NEC pulled battery systems out of 690, where do we go
for guidance on normal battery systems: 12, 24, 48 VDC?
Overall, I welcome most of the changes in NEC 2017, like
separating off grid systems into articles 706, and 710, but
it seems us off grid installers need some more clarification.
Thanks,
--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
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