People need to contact me off list, and I will set up a process. I am
going to follow Brian's information as it is a great road map for this
to be effective. I would like to budget one week from today for
interested parties to contact me so we can get this going. Chris
On 8/31/2021 10:08 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:
That is a great offer. For the sake of our industry I hope it
succeeds. What is the next step? Please keep us in the loop.
Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
---
I would like to suggest that interested WRENCHES form their own
"subcommittee" so that we can have an somewhat organized approach to
this issue. I do know Fronius has been working on this, and we
should seek them out. I will volunteer to help organize the
subcommittee. I have done similar work on other issues. I think
this will have to be done by email so I will set up a process if
there is interest. Chris
On 8/30/2021 2:40 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
The process is very regimented. Here's a link with the details:
https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/Standards-Development/How-the-process-works
<https://www.nfpa.org/Codes-and-Standards/Standards-Development/How-the-process-works>
A few things to note:
All submitted public inputs (PIs) are addressed by the relevant Code
Making Panel (CMP); the NFPA has transitioned so that all this
documentation is online (there used to be a PDF) - it can be viewed
on the "Next Edition" tab of NFPA 70 here:
https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70&tab=nextedition
<https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70&tab=nextedition>
The first draft of 2023, based on all the PIs submitted, came out on
6/28/21; comments on that document were due about 12 days ago, and
the second draft meeting is scheduled for late October. The product
of that meeting, which will post in March 2022, will be, for the
most part, the 2023 NEC.
Sooo, it is going to be tough to "repeal" or get rid of RS based on
the current state of things. There is the NITMAM process (ugh, so
many acronyms), which you can read about here
https://www.nfpa.org/techsession
<https://www.nfpa.org/techsession> and which I'm not very familiar with.
Please keep in mind that CMP-4 (which I am a voting-alternate on,
and which has jurisdiction over 690, 705, 710, and a few other
Articles) is composed of a wide range of folks, from the enforcement
(AHJ) community, the IBEW, various manufacturing trade
organizations, utility organizations, the fire fighting/first
responder community, and solar-specific organizations. Folks have
widely varying degrees of interest in – and experience with – PV,
but they all bring technical expertise from across the electrical
industry. You may be surprised to hear it, but requirements in
regards to RS could have been a lot more stringent, a lot more
quickly, without key representation from the panel members that are
most dedicated to the solar industry. Furthermore this is a
consensus process, and is often the case rarely does anyone get
exactly what they want.
Many of these same folks have been very active participants in the
PV Industry Forum, sponsored by SEIA, and comprised of something
like 60-80 industry stakeholders that work together to craft and
submit consensus Public Inputs for the first draft. In this latest
cycle we submitted dozens of PIs, and the vast majority of them were
accepted and became part of the first draft. This process is key to
jump-starting the new Code cycle - without a Public Input to
address, the code-making panel cannot "touch" a section of the code.
And of course there are plenty of PIs from individuals and other
organizations that are addressed by the panel.
Cheers,
Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
(520) 204-6639
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org <http://www.solarenergy.org>
SEI Professional Services
http://www.seisolarpros.com <http://www.seisolarpros.com>
On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 5:28 AM Christopher Warfel
<cwar...@entech-engineering.com
<mailto:cwar...@entech-engineering.com>> wrote:
Brian, I think you serve on a CMP. (if not, anyone with
knowledge on the process would be helpful.) What is the process
for receiving and acknowledging input from non CMP members?
Every time I submitted comment, I received no response (as far
as I can remember). Thank you, Chris
On 8/28/2021 11:09 AM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
Movement? Maybe, but as far as I can tell it's just a forum to
complain as I see no activity that could actually impact the
NEC® via the clearly defined and delineated process. Also there
are a few flat-out false claims on the site, along with a call
to action to fix module level shutdown by...having module level
shutdown in the junction box? Most of the complaints seem to
come down to connector standardization (which obviously was not
the issue with the APS meltdown that started this thread).
Brian
On Aug 28, 2021, at 7:07 AM,
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
<mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
There is a movement to do away with module level shutdown.
https://www.fixmlsd.com/?utm_campaign=solarbuilder_comment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=fixmlsd
<https://www.fixmlsd.com/?utm_campaign=solarbuilder_comment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=fixmlsd>
FixMLSD has convincing arguments that MLSD is less safe than
safe than an arc fault protective device with a standard
string configuration. Given the many problems with MLSD
devices, it seems likely that this is true.
Drake
Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810
CO Master Electrician's License 4526
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
---
On 2021-08-27 09:02, Tump wrote:
I would once again say that; we as an industry can
influence not only the writing of the code but with what
we are /buying/ OR /not buying./
If the devices we are required to install to make things
"more safe & reliable", at the cost of our livelihoods &
reputations, we all need to make the folks that are
building the RSD crap and those who require installation
of questionably safe & reliable crap aware of these problems.
WE can thru either going to the code development meetings
AND NOT buying or installing this stuff. Not too easy when
a huge amount of solar is rooftop installs. As many of the
installers in the NE know its not a single level ranch
were installing this stuff on, short season & man lift
required.
Tell your supplier why you are not buying that brand, let
your supplier & folks on the list what manufacture has
good reliable products AND tech support that we can
understand, who we can get in a timely fashion, and get
the satisfaction of a prompt replacement. IF we don't
sell it they won't have a job or a market.
On Aug 26, 2021, at 2:09 PM, Jeremy Coxon
<jco...@sunwindpowerinc.com
<mailto:jco...@sunwindpowerinc.com>> wrote:
Carl,
Did you get any kind of joy out of APSmart on that
failure?
I will say that their tech support guy did at least
try to be helpful, but the language barrier was really
really steep and their distribution channels are less
than ideal. Their response to a request for
compensation was that they would not be profitable if
they had to pay for truck rolls for such a low cost
item. I really don't think they GET IT. We've been
in business for over 16yrs and this one failure could
easily have ended that run.
I cannot imagine we're alone here. I was told by AP
that their failure rate was 0.2%. Now, I come from a
reliability engineering background in petro chemical/
big pharma where a 0.2% failure rate would be
catastrophic. Can you imagine that 2 out of every
1000 pills made could cause death? We engineered
secondary systems and multiple quality checks to
contain catastrophic consequences for components that
had know failure rates higher than acceptable values.
A simple solution to this fire initiation issue would
be a metal enclosure instead of plastic casing. That
still doesn't really solve the problem of extra
connections though.
Best Regards,
Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21
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