Storm Copper has tables. William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com
On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 7:13 AM Jay via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Thx Michael > > How do you calculate buss bar size? > Is there a specific formula or table I can find? > > Thx > Jay > > On Sep 18, 2023, at 5:15 PM, Michael Morningstar <mjmornings...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I've been making gutter bus wireways that run the length of batteries and > inverters allowing for exact lengths of cables. I think I posted a picture > of an exceptionally large one. 24' long. I'm looking at the rack mounted > set up because the bussing and cabling is done. 3 racks of 6 5kwhr > batteries. All I will need is cabling from the racks to a small (in size) > bussbar > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 3:50 PM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Sounds like a good design. >> >> >> As a tangent question to 13 parallel batteries, such as you’ll need >> Michael. >> >> How are people wiring larger numbers of lithium batteries together in >> parallel? >> >> Massive buss bars which I’m not sure how to do in a code compliance way. >> Or >> Not worrying about different cable lengths? >> Or >> Adding another conductor to the farthest batteries to compensate for VD >> Or >> Making all the cables the same length? >> >> Thx >> >> Jay >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 18, 2023, at 4:37 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >> >> Jay, >> I'd like to design for 60kw supply and 100kWh battery. I think I'm going >> to try the Discover rack mount set up rather than AES's and custom bussing. >> Jason, >> That's exactly what I was thinking, if I go the Sol-Ark route. Last time >> I ordered custom panelboards like that, they were six months out. >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 1:18 PM Jay via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> If 40kw is the peak and then there are new added loads, what 50-60kw? >>> >>> If it was me I’d be designing the inverters to handle the 50/60 kw with >>> future expansion capabilities beyond that. >>> >>> Then how much kWh of storage are you going to need or maybe are planning >>> for? >>> >>> At some point maybe looking at a larger single inverter with high >>> voltage battery vs 48v? >>> I’m not sure if there are any 120/240 versions yet. >>> >>> Jay >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sep 18, 2023, at 12:36 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I like the Sol-Ark idea having had a few dual-unit successes recently. >>> In terms of combining them, the Sol-ark manual has a good triple unit >>> wiring diagram on page 53. You would have to use two 400A panelboards with >>> three 200A breakers for each to follow this diagram. However, I don't see >>> the point of a combining load center on the load side of the paralleled >>> units. The Sol-Arks each have a 200A integrated load breaker, so why not >>> just combine the outputs in a multi-tap connector or busbar? I think there >>> is a code-compliant way to make that work, but I haven't studied it with >>> three units. >>> >>> I would definitely ditch the SolarEdge inverters and just make it DC >>> coupled to the Sol-Arks. You don't need these to be a failure point in the >>> system, and the AC coupling will reduce the energy production in backup >>> scenarios. >>> >>> It sounds like you would have to get the six 200 feeders out of the >>> meter/main and into a new panelboard on the load side of the Sol-Arks. So >>> that's another required load center. >>> >>> And if money is truly no object, I would consider a manual transfer >>> switch to bypass the inverters for service. I'm afraid to look up what a >>> 400A DPDT switch costs. >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 1:14 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches < >>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>> >>>> I've been asked to build a back up system for a grid connected estate. >>>> We haven't done many of these and I thought it best to ask those who have >>>> some questions before I go about reinventing the wheel. >>>> >>>> Here's the existing infrastructure. >>>> 1) 400amp Metered Main Distribution Panel with six 200amp feeders to >>>> various sub-panels on the property >>>> 2) 400amp ATS and 100kw Kohler rapid response generator >>>> 3) 20kw ground mount array with (2) SE Inverters located at the array. >>>> Feeder from array is 1,000 ft to Service. Six years old and wiring is >>>> janky. >>>> 4) Data logging for the last year shows peak demands of almost 40kw. >>>> This could increase as several of formerly vacant guest residences could >>>> be occupied. >>>> >>>> My go to is almost always Schneider, however in this instance when I >>>> looked into a quad stack, or more It seems like some type of controller is >>>> needed to prevent imbalanced current passing through the relays during >>>> transfer. That left me a bit concerned. Has anyone successfully stacked 4 >>>> or more XWPROs? >>>> >>>> Then there is the matter of AC or DC coupling? I really want no part in >>>> having anything to do with SE. The inverters are already looking pretty >>>> weathered taking the brunt of the prevailing winds and storms (they are >>>> mounted to one of the ground mount poles). Seems like a great waste to pull >>>> out the 4/0 feeders and replace strings. My other hesitancy with AC >>>> coupling is that we would lose PV monitoring and control. >>>> >>>> I've also considered Sol Ark 15's, like three of them. We've got some >>>> SA systems under are belt now and the only thing I can say that I like is >>>> the speed of installation and the 200amp pass through. Other than that, >>>> they leave me uninspired. One very large system continues to have glitches >>>> that SA just shrugs their shoulders about. If we were to do three 15's, >>>> *what's >>>> the preferred combining method?* All that I can come up with is a >>>> custom 400a panelboard w/ three 200a breakers. >>>> >>>> Price is not a consideration for this project. The new owners of this >>>> property (which is plagued with outages) have tasked me with building >>>> something that is ultra reliable and good take over in a situation where >>>> the grid is no longer available. >>>> >>>> Any suggestions or tips are appreciated. >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Michael Morningstar >>>> >>>> >>>> Morningstar Electric >>>> >>>> PO Box 1494 >>>> >>>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >>>> >>>> 530-921-0560 >>>> >>>> mjmornings...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> Michael Morningstar >> >> >> Morningstar Electric >> >> PO Box 1494 >> >> Mount Shasta, CA 96067 >> >> 530-921-0560 >> >> mjmornings...@gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > -- > > Michael Morningstar > > > Morningstar Electric > > PO Box 1494 > > Mount Shasta, CA 96067 > > 530-921-0560 > > mjmornings...@gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. 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