As does Watteredge.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and 
spelling errors.------ Original message------From: William Miller via 
RE-wrenchesDate: Tue, Sep 19, 2023 2:09 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: William 
Miller;Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] GT w/ BBStorm Copper has tables. William 
MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.comOn Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 
7:13 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Thx 
MichaelHow do you calculate buss bar size?Is there a specific formula or table 
I can find?ThxJayOn Sep 18, 2023, at 5:15 PM, Michael Morningstar 
<mjmornings...@gmail.com> wrote:I've been making gutter bus wireways that run 
the length of batteries and inverters allowing for exact lengths of cables. I 
think I posted a picture of an exceptionally large one. 24' long. I'm looking 
at the rack mounted set up because the bussing and cabling is done. 3 racks of 
6 5kwhr batteries. All I will need is cabling from the racks to a small (in 
size) bussbarO
 n
 Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 3:50 PM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:Sounds like a 
good design. As a tangent question to 13 parallel batteries, such as you’ll 
need Michael. How are people wiring larger numbers of lithium batteries 
together in parallel?Massive buss bars which I’m not sure how to do in a code 
compliance way. Or Not worrying about different cable lengths?Or Adding another 
conductor to the farthest batteries to compensate for VDOr Making all the 
cables the same length?Thx JayOn Sep 18, 2023, at 4:37 PM, Michael Morningstar 
via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Jay, I'd like to 
design for 60kw supply and 100kWh battery. I think I'm going to try the 
Discover rack mount set up rather than AES's and custom bussing.Jason,That's 
exactly what I was thinking, if I go the Sol-Ark route. Last time I ordered 
custom panelboards like that, they were six months out.On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 
1:18 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> w
 rote:If 40kw is
 the peak and then there are new added loads, what 50-60kw?  If it was me I’d 
be designing the inverters to handle the 50/60 kw with future expansion 
capabilities beyond that. Then how much kWh of storage are you going to need or 
maybe are planning for?At some point maybe looking at a larger single inverter 
with high voltage battery vs 48v?I’m not sure if there are any 120/240 versions 
yet.  JayOn Sep 18, 2023, at 12:36 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I like the Sol-Ark idea having had a 
few dual-unit successes recently. In terms of combining them, the Sol-ark 
manual has a good triple unit wiring diagram on page 53. You would have to use 
two 400A panelboards with three 200A breakers for each to follow this diagram. 
However, I don't see the point of a combining load center on the load side of 
the paralleled units. The Sol-Arks each have a 200A integrated load breaker, so 
why not just combine the outputs in a multi-tap connector
  or
 busbar? I think there is a code-compliant way to make that work, but I haven't 
studied it with three units.I would definitely ditch the SolarEdge inverters 
and just make it DC coupled to the Sol-Arks. You don't need these to be a 
failure point in the system, and the AC coupling will reduce the energy 
production in backup scenarios.It sounds like you would have to get the six 200 
feeders out of the meter/main and into a new panelboard on the load side of the 
Sol-Arks. So that's another required load center.And if money is truly no 
object, I would consider a manual transfer switch to bypass the inverters for 
service. I'm afraid to look up what a 400A DPDT switch costs.Jason 
SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified 
Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956On 
Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 1:14 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I've been asked to build a back up 
system for a
  grid
 connected estate. We haven't done many of these and I thought it best to ask 
those who have some questions before I go about reinventing the wheel.Here's 
the existing infrastructure.1) 400amp Metered Main Distribution Panel with six 
200amp feeders to various sub-panels on the property2) 400amp ATS and 100kw 
Kohler rapid response generator 3) 20kw ground mount array with (2) SE 
Inverters located at the array. Feeder from array is 1,000 ft to Service. Six 
years old and wiring is janky.4) Data logging for the last year shows peak 
demands of almost 40kw. This could increase as several of formerly vacant  
guest residences could be occupied.My go to is almost always Schneider, however 
in this instance when I looked into a quad stack, or more It seems like some 
type of controller is needed to prevent imbalanced current passing through the 
relays during transfer. That left me a bit concerned. Has anyone successfully 
stacked 4 or more XWPROs?Then there is the matter of AC or DC coupling?
  I
 really want no part in having anything to do with SE. The inverters are 
already looking pretty weathered taking the brunt of the prevailing winds and 
storms (they are mounted to one of the ground mount poles). Seems like a great 
waste to pull out the 4/0 feeders and replace strings. My other hesitancy with 
AC coupling is that we would lose PV monitoring and control.I've also 
considered Sol Ark 15's, like three of them. We've got some SA systems under 
are belt now and the only thing I can say that I like is the speed of 
installation and the 200amp pass through. Other than that, they leave me 
uninspired. One very large system continues to have glitches that SA just 
shrugs their shoulders about. If we were to do three 15's, what's the preferred 
combining method? All that I can come up with is a custom 400a panelboard w/ 
three 200a breakers. Price is not a consideration for this project. The new 
owners of this property (which is plagued with outages) have tasked me with 
building
 something that is ultra reliable and good take over in a situation where the 
grid is no longer available.Any suggestions or tips are appreciated.Michael-- 








Michael MorningstarMorningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 
96067530-921-0560mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Michael MorningstarMorningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 
96067530-921-0560mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Michael MorningstarMorningstar ElectricPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 
96067530-921-0560mjmornings...@gmail.com
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