Teravus,
Thank-you very much for the update.
What exactly are the differences between a 3Di server, and an OpenSim +
ModRex server?
*> is hypocritical considering that you thought it was a good thing for
separate*
*> viewers to be developed when you started Naali.*
Ok, let's not throw any stones. First, I would like to publicly thank
Norman Lin (and 3Di) for releasing "Rei" as OpenSource. I do apologize to
3Di (as I didn't know or realize that 3Di was even working on this viewer).
It would be nice to get it working with ModRex/RealXtend though.
I can understand that Ryan wanted to work on creating a completely new
viewer from scratch (Naali), and although Naali is different from Rei, it's
not a bad thing to have multiple OpenSource Viewer options (it gives people
options). But at the same time, it is very nice to see "Rei" as another
OpenSource Viewer option.
I am very glad to see that "Rei" has been developed and released as
OpenSource. I'm also very glad that Naali is making progress. I do think
that the "Rei" Viewer is a GREAT contribution to the OpenSim community as a
whole.
I do agree that "Rei" may need some "tweaking" so that we can get it updated
to work with OpenSim (native/vanilla) and also get it working properly with
OpenSim + ModRex.
*> **and am willing to work with each towards improving the quality of the*
*> simulations. *
This is what we truly need as a community. We need to work together, in a
collective effort, because as we all branch off in opposite directions it
creates different standards and the various platforms (and viewers) end up
incompatible.
So yes, I really do like how Naali has a nice tab for stock OpenSimulator,
and it really would be nice to see "Rei" work with OpenSim + ModRex as well.
*> It looks to me like, to use the 3di browser viewer in
> it's current state you need to use the 3di server to get textures and
> avatar mesh. One thing that's great about it being open source now
> though, is, if people like the idea of a browser based viewer, they
> can tweak the asset/texture pipeline to get it to work, completely, on
> a stock opensimulator. *
>From what I understand, "Rei" is using a browser plugin for Firefox (or
ActiveX plugin for IE) is there any way to possibly add a GUI menu option
that would allow a user to select "3Di", "OpenSim" or "ModRex" from a GUI
option? Or better yet, is there any way that the plugins could be modified
to automatically do some type of "*Server Detect*" so that the Rei Viewer
browser plugin could detect the type of server that is being used (whether
it is a 3di, OpenSim, or OpenSim + ModRex/RealXtend) so that the "Rei"
Viewer could work properly with all 3 servers? (OpenSim, OpenSim + ModRex,
and also 3Di Server)
Similar to how websites can do a "browser detect" (and show what Web Browser
you are using, and what version), would there be any way to so something
similar (but in reverse) so that the "Rei" Viewer browser plugins could
detect what type/version of server is currently running (whether it is a
basic OpenSim server, or a OpenSim + ModRex, or a 3di server?)
This way the "Rei" Viewer could automatically work with all 3 servers?
What are your thoughts on how we could possibly make "Rei" compatible with
all 3 platforms (OpenSim, OpenSim + ModRex, and 3Di)? Would something like
that be possible?
Thank-you,
Mark
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Teravus Ovares <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I had this exact discussion with you, Ryan, almost a year ago about
> IdealistViewer... wondering why realXtend went out of their way to
> do an entirely new viewer (Naali was in the planning process at the
> time). I was going out of my way to keep everyone informed on the
> status if IdealistViewer. You said that you thought it was good that
> realXtend was making a completely new viewer instead of working on
> supporting existing viewers at the time. Your reasons for doing it
> were quite mysterious to me since IdealistViewer was progressing very
> nicely. It seemed to me like duplicating work..
>
> Your response to the release of Rai ( you seem offended that 3di made
> their own viewer ) , now, is hypocritical considering that you thought
> it was a good thing for separate viewers to be developed when you
> started Naali.
>
> That said, I'm keeping informed about the state of all 3rd party BSD
> licensed viewers (Naali, Rei ) and entirely new systems (sirikata) and
> am willing to work with each towards improving the quality of the
> simulations. It looks to me like, to use the 3di browser viewer in
> it's current state you need to use the 3di server to get textures and
> avatar mesh. One thing that's great about it being open source now
> though, is, if people like the idea of a browser based viewer, they
> can tweak the asset/texture pipeline to get it to work, completely, on
> a stock opensimulator. I know that Naali has a nice tab for stock
> OpenSimulator login already :).
>
>
> Regards
>
> Teravus
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 4:50 AM, Ryan McDougall <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Mark Malewski <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >> Ryan,
> >> Thanks for the quick response. What are your thoughts on this? Do you
> >> think it would help speed up development on the new RealXtend viewer?
> It
> >
> > There might be some ideas here or there, but the design, mission, and
> > implementation language are all quite different.
> >
> > 3Di knew of realXtend's work from very early on, as I made sure to
> > keep them informed ahead of even public announcements, including
> > multiple requests to work closely together. My emails and IMs went
> > largely unanswered, and eventually they made a conscious decision to
> > go their own direction. I was told quite clearly that they were
> > interested in working with the OpenSim community, but not realXtend.
> >
> > The precise reasons for all this are quite mysterious to me.
> >
> >> certainly would be nice to have a web-browser based viewer that would
> work
> >> with ModRex/RealXtend.
> >> Would it possibly make more sense to pull a developer off of "Taiga" and
> put
> >
> > I don't think it makes sense to divert realXtend resources from the
> > Naali viewer to support Rei. I do hope that Rei can be one day made to
> > work on multiple backends, including RealXtend, as ultimately it's
> > just SLUDP extended for meshes.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >> a developer on "Rei" and possibly just modify it so that it will work
> with
> >> BOTH OpenSim stock, and also ModRex? (this way we would have one viewer
> >> that would work on both platforms natively?)
> >>> Originally 3Di's proprietary product was based on realXtend. Nearest I
> >>> can tell it still is
> >> So do you believe that this viewer could possibly work with the latest
> >> OpenSim + ModRex?
> >>> If it doesn't rely on ModreX atm, it's only because the reimplemented
> >>> something functionally equivalent for the express purpose of not
> >>> depending on ModreX, which would be sad, as we have always been happy
> >>> to work with 3Di, but they seem to be uninterested in working with us.
> >> That is really sad. I understand it might possibly have something to do
> >> with their "business model" (on their Enterprise/commercial product),
> but
> >> I'd like to talk to Norman, because I really would like to see this work
> >> natively with RealXtend's ModRex.
> >> Do you think this "Rei" Viewer could easily be modified to work with
> BOTH
> >> OpenSim stock, and also OpenSim + ModRex?
> >> Have you had a chance to look over the Source code yet? Do you think it
> >> would make more sense to maybe divert some attention away from the
> current
> >> "NexGen" Viewer (Taiga?) and possibly look at modifying this "Rei"
> Viewer so
> >> that we can use it with ModRex? I think it would be great to have a
> >> web-based viewer for RealXtend. What are your thoughts on this?
> >>> Originally 3Di's proprietary product was based on realXtend. Nearest I
> >>> can tell it still is
> >> Do you have any ideas how far 3Di's proprietary product is behind the
> >> current OpenSim trunk? With all of OpenSim's latest changes (on the
> server
> >> side), do you have any ideas if this viewer would even work on the
> latest
> >> stock build/release of OpenSim? How hard do you think it would be to
> >> update/modify this "Rei" viewer to work with the latest OpenSim +
> ModRex? I
> >> understand the Rex Dev's are spread pretty thin right now, but do you
> think
> >> from a development standpoint, that it might make more sense to put a
> ReX
> >> developer or two on this "Rei" Viewer, and maybe get "Rei" Viewer
> working
> >> with the latest OpenSim + ModRex?
> >> I hate to sound ignorant, but do you think the latest "ROBUST" changes
> (by
> >> Diva) on the OpenSim Server would have ANY effect on the Viewer at all?
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 2:28 AM, Ryan McDougall <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Mark Malewski <
> [email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > RealXtend,
> >>> > Have any of the RealXtend core developer's had a chance to look at
> this
> >>> > OpenSource "Rei" viewer yet?
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, as a former employee of 3Di, I've known this was in the works
> >>> for a while. Looking at the source code atm.
> >>>
> >>> > It seems to be an OpenSource web-based viewer. It looks pretty cool.
> >>> > Would
> >>> > this OpenSource contribution help RealXtend's Viewer project in any
> way?
> >>>
> >>> In theory it fills a gap where people want to run a realXtend world in
> >>> the browser. See below.
> >>>
> >>> > Could this viewer be easily modified to work with BOTH the stock
> >>> > OpenSim
> >>> > AND also work with RealXtend & ModRex?
> >>>
> >>> Originally 3Di's proprietary product was based on realXtend. Nearest I
> >>> can tell it still is, as realXtend viewer is required to construct 3Di
> >>> OpenSim worlds.
> >>>
> >>> If it doesn't rely on ModreX atm, it's only because the reimplemented
> >>> something functionally equivalent for the express purpose of not
> >>> depending on ModreX, which would be sad, as we have always been happy
> >>> to work with 3Di, but they seem to be uninterested in working with us.
> >>>
> >>> > Mark
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Mark Malewski <
> [email protected]>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Nlin,
> >>> >> Thank-you very much for the post, that seems like an excellent
> >>> >> contribution to the OpenSim Community!
> >>> >> I'm wondering what type of effect this might have on RealXtend's
> >>> >> project
> >>> >> development of a new viewer?
> >>> >> Will this "Rei" viewer work with the latest stock OpenSim server?
> >>> >> Mark
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 8:24 PM, nlin wrote:
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Hello,
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Today 3Di's in-browser viewer source code has been opened up, as
> the
> >>> >>> project 3Di Viewer "Rei". The license is BSD. Please have a look if
> >>> >>> you are
> >>> >>> interested!
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Project home page: http://3di-rei.org
> >>> >>> Press release: http://3di.jp/en/news/2009093001.html
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> We're very interested in further development of this open source
> >>> >>> viewer
> >>> >>> with the community. Thanks to the IdealistViewer developers, as
> >>> >>> portions of
> >>> >>> Rei use source code from an early version of IdealistViewer. Rei
> uses
> >>> >>> no
> >>> >>> code from GPL-licensed viewers.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> The Rei source code is in git at github, with the main repository
> at:
> >>> >>> http://github.com/3di/3di-viewer-rei
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Thanks,
> >>> >>> -nlin
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> > >
> >
>
> >
>
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http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend
http://www.realxtend.org
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