It would be nice to see some group projects. I would like to see a project to put together a real library of xml functionality for Rebol, something which I think might be too much for one or two to accomplish realistically.
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Coussement Christophe Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [REBOL] Re: lost the case ... We just can't let it to agree with you, pekr :( We are now working since 2000 full time with REBOL for developing business core applications, and it is a monthly work to convince our management to keep it that way. We had a few meeting where we could demonstrate the power of the underlying concepts of REBOL, and they agreed to it. But the raising question is : what about the future ? what if RT does not survive a bad financial situation ? Life goes on... when I see how PHP/Python/Java or even C# community are dynamic and growing on, how does the REBOL community stands there ? Lot of very great peoples are working on very nice projects, but can we speak of community work ? are there out there projects developed by -let's say- 10 people. Very good idea's - PDF-maker, steel, anamonitor, ... - are supported by one or two people, I think... I'm feeling even more uncomfortable when my bosses ask "how is it with your projects ? ... and still using REBOL ?..." I'm afraid one day will come we will have to switch to more dynamic env, even if its less revolutionary and productive, but better supported. Just look at the history: if a revolution is not supported by a critical mass people, it will not become a success, being overthrowed or becoming a dictature... Please RT, save our code ! As always, just 5 (euro-)cents thoughts ==christophe > -----Original Message----- > From: Petr Krenzelok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 04 November, 2003 00:35 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [REBOL] lost the case ... > > > > Hi, > > today I lost second person who started with rebol some few > months ago. > Sorry if you will find my comments off-topic, or negative, > but I can't > resist. And what is more - I think current situation deserves some > criticism. Maybe you will tell me you don't know how my lamenting can > help rebol, but otoh I may ask you - how current state of no visible > progress can help it either. > > I know there are several groups of rebol users - those who are real > rebol hackers, who can accomplish really nice things using rebol, but > otoh there is group of ppl, who will start to be frustrated, > after some > time of usage. > > Today I met such person - my long time friend. He is a programmer - > average one. He tried to do very simply thing - press the button and > insert some text into area, into caret position. While I am sure few > even few lines solutions could be posted, the problem is, > that my friend > does not care anymore. And sadly - I have to agree with him, as the > cause is: > > - VID is 70 - 80% complete, which means it pushes ppl to adapt styles. > - styles don't provide proper encapsulation - why such thing as caret > position of certain face is not simply a property of face object ... > - styles are inconsistent from the point of user data storage > - styles are incomplete in 'feel area of behavior > - lack of View documentation ... > > I am (was) a programmer too. I think I know what I talk > about. Don't get > me wrong - VID is beautifull concept, but in current state it > pushes ppl > to often try to hack into View level, but then - there is a lack of > documentation. When I learned Visual Objects, there were 2 things > important - event model and class hierarchy. The same goes > for View imo > - I remember that with View beta 1 came one doc, which left VID > completly - it explained how concept of faces, events, its filtering > etc. works. I think, that from programmer's perspective, > something like > that should reappear and upon such doc things like VID should be > explained. VID only docs are nice, if VID itself is complete > enough so > it will not push ppl to touch under its level ... > > I am also asked - for nearly one year - hey, - what is new > with rebol? > And I have to say - nothing. SDK here or there does not count. I know > that money are priority probably, but in such case, I think > that is is > inproper identification of long term business strategy. I would not > bother with SDK for BSD or so, but would focus onto bringing Rebol to > mobile devices arena, OSx etc. > > Now read those and look into the dates: > November 2002: > Monthly "State of the REBOLion" updates - Starting as of this > message we > will provide regular monthly news updates to keep you > informed. (We also > hope to recruit members from the REBOL community to contribute useful > information, hints, docs, and scripts.) > > http://www.rebol.com/news3203.html > http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=199 > > I think that those things should not be stated, unless fullfilled in > reasonable enought timeframe. From external pov rebol totally > lacks on > development. I was trying to be helpfull as much as I could to my two > friends, but they are not blind and I refuse to fool them > around. I was > also asked some two years ago to write about View for magazine of 12K > monthly issues sold, but I refuse to, because of inability to > guarantee > any single thing regarding rebol's future. Gee, last official View > release was when? > > Well, sadly I have to admit, that Rebol is becoming another Amiga - I > will use it till the last day, but to be fair I would really have to > think twice before suggesting Rebol to newcomers. > > Yesterday I received renewal for payment of rebol.cz domain. > Some time > ago I had intention to build some czech portal. I expected someone to > help. I expected growing community, but now I think I will let the > domain go. Should I do it for 3 - 8 active rebols in Czech > Republic? Ask > yourself how many rebols there are in other countries? > > Rebol was/is not succesfull in generating criticall mass of > developers/users, so that most rebollers have another primar jobs and > having less and less time for rebol related projects. I feel > sorry for > loosing two ppl to rebol case, but untill there is publicly > stated short > and long term strategy and at least some sign of sticking to > published > words I wonder if situation can get any better soon. > > Sorry for frustration, but I think I am not only one thinking > along the > lines ... > > -pekr- > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, just send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the subject. > > -- To unsubscribe from this list, just send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the subject. -- To unsubscribe from this list, just send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the subject.
