Yep. Wake was a decent option as an occasional No. 6 (but was overused), Aceves was a capable swingman as the No. 7 (but Tito wouldn't use him), Doubront was ready down in Pawtucket as the No. 8 (but got hurt) ....
How about we keep Papelbon and turn Bard back into a starter? Steve O On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > I dunno. I still think it was reasonable to consider Lester and Buccholz as > a one and two in the rotation, with Becket and Lackey as very solid threes > and fours. And Daisuke is an above average five. > > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> The whole "suck" problem is back to Theo. That was a fragile staff. It's >> not as if they did well last year. In fact the pitching cost us the post >> season as well. >> >> On Oct 7, 2011, at 12:18 PM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > It doesn't make for good copy, but yes, they failed repeatedly, they >> > had injuries and they had bad luck. >> > >> > Lackey just plain sucks, and did the whole year. Wakefield is old, and >> > sucks, and over the past few years has sucked more the deeper into the >> > season he went. Kyle Weiland has fifth-starter potential, but he's not >> > ready, and he sucked. Andrew Miller was a good gamble, but he sucked >> > like he has for most of his major league career. Erik Bedard is a >> > capable starter with good stuff, but he missed a large chunk of the >> > season with injury, came back without rehab, hurt himself again, then >> > came back again down the stretch -- out of desperation, and again with >> > no rehab -- and sucked. >> > >> > All of those guys certainly could have pitched better than they did in >> > September, but they didn't. It was a confluence of suckiness. >> > >> > The loss of Buchholz was huge, taking away an above-average pitcher >> > and replacing him with sub-average ones. What hurt the most down the >> > stretch is that Lester and Beckett collapsed. That's the part that we >> > couldn't foresee. I don't have the energy to look up the numbers, but >> > I don't think that's been the history of Beckett and Lester. But I >> > have a hard time blaming Curt Young's not watching their beer >> > consumption as the problem. >> > >> > Both of those guys missed starts in September with injuries -- isn't >> > it entirely possible that neither one was at 100 percent, but they >> > rushed back due to the dire situation? >> > >> > I was actually worried about Lester most of the summer. He went on the >> > DL with the strained Lat in July, and when he got back, Tito >> > immediately insisted on riding him hard -- with big pitch counts -- >> > even in games where the Sox had big leads, even when the Sox had a big >> > lead in the standings. He didn't have good command for most of the >> > second half of the season. Yes, if Lester was in NFL-linebacker >> > physical condition, maybe he wouldn't have worn down, but he's never >> > been in that kind of condition. >> > >> > I think just plain bad pitching was the reason for the epic collapse. >> > The pressure once the collapse started certainly didn't help, but >> > clubhouse chemistry and beer are just scapegoats. There wasn't a >> > single whiff of complaint in either regard on Aug. 31. It wasn't until >> > after the fact that everyone started searching for a narrative to >> > explain things. >> > >> > Anyway, glad to see both the Rays and Yanks done. >> > >> > Steve O >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Steve, what is your reason for the epic collapse? They tried their best >> >> and >> >> just failed...repeatedly? Just bad luck? >> >> Yes, the team lost because they didn't play well. But there might be >> >> things >> >> that led to that. >> >> I'm not really buying the beer thing either, but if pitchers strayed >> >> from >> >> programs that made them successful in the past than that's a very real >> >> thing, and a problem. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steve Ouellette >> >> <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> There are a lot of successful fat pitchers. Curt Schilling was hefty. >> >>> David Wells was enormously successful in the postseason. They're >> >>> baseball players, not athletes, and the whole beer thing is just a >> >>> convenient excuse for the epic collapse. >> >>> >> >>> Steve O >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Ray <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> I've come to the conclusion that I agree with Tom. The season was >> >>>> lost >> >>>> to fat pitchers who couldn't pitch. >> >>>> >> >>>> For this I blame the pitching coach who let them get fat. >> >>>> >> >>>> I blame Francona for protecting our fatsos in the media and >> >>>> protecting >> >>>> the enabling pitching coach. >> >>>> >> >>>> Finally I blame Theo for bringing us Dice-K and Lackey, and for >> >>>> letting >> >>>> the pitching staff get fat. I think that the Sox developed a culture >> >>>> of fame >> >>>> with no pressure or expectations. >> >>>> >> >>>> Pressure won't make you pitch better in a game, but it will keep the >> >>>> beer from your lips and get you to push back from the buffet table. >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/redsoxcitizens/-/NkMuGU0mLpMJ. >> >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>>> [email protected]. >> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >>> Groups >> >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >>> [email protected]. >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups >> >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> [email protected]. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. 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