I think that the only reason people really want to see Aceves start is that nobody saw Aceves start.
I bet it would have been a short honeymoon. On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected]>wrote: > Yep. Wake was a decent option as an occasional No. 6 (but was > overused), Aceves was a capable swingman as the No. 7 (but Tito > wouldn't use him), Doubront was ready down in Pawtucket as the No. 8 > (but got hurt) .... > > How about we keep Papelbon and turn Bard back into a starter? > > Steve O > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > > I dunno. I still think it was reasonable to consider Lester and Buccholz > as > > a one and two in the rotation, with Becket and Lackey as very solid > threes > > and fours. And Daisuke is an above average five. > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> The whole "suck" problem is back to Theo. That was a fragile staff. > It's > >> not as if they did well last year. In fact the pitching cost us the > post > >> season as well. > >> > >> On Oct 7, 2011, at 12:18 PM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > It doesn't make for good copy, but yes, they failed repeatedly, they > >> > had injuries and they had bad luck. > >> > > >> > Lackey just plain sucks, and did the whole year. Wakefield is old, and > >> > sucks, and over the past few years has sucked more the deeper into the > >> > season he went. Kyle Weiland has fifth-starter potential, but he's not > >> > ready, and he sucked. Andrew Miller was a good gamble, but he sucked > >> > like he has for most of his major league career. Erik Bedard is a > >> > capable starter with good stuff, but he missed a large chunk of the > >> > season with injury, came back without rehab, hurt himself again, then > >> > came back again down the stretch -- out of desperation, and again with > >> > no rehab -- and sucked. > >> > > >> > All of those guys certainly could have pitched better than they did in > >> > September, but they didn't. It was a confluence of suckiness. > >> > > >> > The loss of Buchholz was huge, taking away an above-average pitcher > >> > and replacing him with sub-average ones. What hurt the most down the > >> > stretch is that Lester and Beckett collapsed. That's the part that we > >> > couldn't foresee. I don't have the energy to look up the numbers, but > >> > I don't think that's been the history of Beckett and Lester. But I > >> > have a hard time blaming Curt Young's not watching their beer > >> > consumption as the problem. > >> > > >> > Both of those guys missed starts in September with injuries -- isn't > >> > it entirely possible that neither one was at 100 percent, but they > >> > rushed back due to the dire situation? > >> > > >> > I was actually worried about Lester most of the summer. He went on the > >> > DL with the strained Lat in July, and when he got back, Tito > >> > immediately insisted on riding him hard -- with big pitch counts -- > >> > even in games where the Sox had big leads, even when the Sox had a big > >> > lead in the standings. He didn't have good command for most of the > >> > second half of the season. Yes, if Lester was in NFL-linebacker > >> > physical condition, maybe he wouldn't have worn down, but he's never > >> > been in that kind of condition. > >> > > >> > I think just plain bad pitching was the reason for the epic collapse. > >> > The pressure once the collapse started certainly didn't help, but > >> > clubhouse chemistry and beer are just scapegoats. There wasn't a > >> > single whiff of complaint in either regard on Aug. 31. It wasn't until > >> > after the fact that everyone started searching for a narrative to > >> > explain things. > >> > > >> > Anyway, glad to see both the Rays and Yanks done. > >> > > >> > Steve O > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> Steve, what is your reason for the epic collapse? They tried their > best > >> >> and > >> >> just failed...repeatedly? Just bad luck? > >> >> Yes, the team lost because they didn't play well. But there might be > >> >> things > >> >> that led to that. > >> >> I'm not really buying the beer thing either, but if pitchers strayed > >> >> from > >> >> programs that made them successful in the past than that's a very > real > >> >> thing, and a problem. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steve Ouellette > >> >> <[email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> There are a lot of successful fat pitchers. Curt Schilling was > hefty. > >> >>> David Wells was enormously successful in the postseason. They're > >> >>> baseball players, not athletes, and the whole beer thing is just a > >> >>> convenient excuse for the epic collapse. > >> >>> > >> >>> Steve O > >> >>> > >> >>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Ray <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >>>> I've come to the conclusion that I agree with Tom. The season was > >> >>>> lost > >> >>>> to fat pitchers who couldn't pitch. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> For this I blame the pitching coach who let them get fat. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I blame Francona for protecting our fatsos in the media and > >> >>>> protecting > >> >>>> the enabling pitching coach. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Finally I blame Theo for bringing us Dice-K and Lackey, and for > >> >>>> letting > >> >>>> the pitching staff get fat. I think that the Sox developed a > culture > >> >>>> of fame > >> >>>> with no pressure or expectations. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Pressure won't make you pitch better in a game, but it will keep > the > >> >>>> beer from your lips and get you to push back from the buffet table. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -- > >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/redsoxcitizens/-/NkMuGU0mLpMJ. > >> >>>> To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >>>> [email protected]. > >> >>>> For more options, visit this group at > >> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >>> Groups > >> >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> >>> To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >>> [email protected]. > >> >>> For more options, visit this group at > >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >> Groups > >> >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> [email protected]. > >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > [email protected]. > >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > -- Author of Confessions of a Good Mother<http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Good-Mother-ebook/dp/B005LSR57W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315785606&sr=8-1>: The story of an assassin and mom who struggles with life balance issues. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. 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