He did OK in a couple of spot starts early on -- and I would bet my life on him being more effective than the No. 5 starter crap we threw at the wall in September.
Not saying I want him as part of the rotation heading into the year though. Steve O On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > I think that the only reason people really want to see Aceves start is that > nobody saw Aceves start. > I bet it would have been a short honeymoon. > > On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> Yep. Wake was a decent option as an occasional No. 6 (but was >> overused), Aceves was a capable swingman as the No. 7 (but Tito >> wouldn't use him), Doubront was ready down in Pawtucket as the No. 8 >> (but got hurt) .... >> >> How about we keep Papelbon and turn Bard back into a starter? >> >> Steve O >> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I dunno. I still think it was reasonable to consider Lester and Buccholz >> > as >> > a one and two in the rotation, with Becket and Lackey as very solid >> > threes >> > and fours. And Daisuke is an above average five. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> The whole "suck" problem is back to Theo. That was a fragile staff. >> >> It's >> >> not as if they did well last year. In fact the pitching cost us the >> >> post >> >> season as well. >> >> >> >> On Oct 7, 2011, at 12:18 PM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > It doesn't make for good copy, but yes, they failed repeatedly, they >> >> > had injuries and they had bad luck. >> >> > >> >> > Lackey just plain sucks, and did the whole year. Wakefield is old, >> >> > and >> >> > sucks, and over the past few years has sucked more the deeper into >> >> > the >> >> > season he went. Kyle Weiland has fifth-starter potential, but he's >> >> > not >> >> > ready, and he sucked. Andrew Miller was a good gamble, but he sucked >> >> > like he has for most of his major league career. Erik Bedard is a >> >> > capable starter with good stuff, but he missed a large chunk of the >> >> > season with injury, came back without rehab, hurt himself again, then >> >> > came back again down the stretch -- out of desperation, and again >> >> > with >> >> > no rehab -- and sucked. >> >> > >> >> > All of those guys certainly could have pitched better than they did >> >> > in >> >> > September, but they didn't. It was a confluence of suckiness. >> >> > >> >> > The loss of Buchholz was huge, taking away an above-average pitcher >> >> > and replacing him with sub-average ones. What hurt the most down the >> >> > stretch is that Lester and Beckett collapsed. That's the part that we >> >> > couldn't foresee. I don't have the energy to look up the numbers, but >> >> > I don't think that's been the history of Beckett and Lester. But I >> >> > have a hard time blaming Curt Young's not watching their beer >> >> > consumption as the problem. >> >> > >> >> > Both of those guys missed starts in September with injuries -- isn't >> >> > it entirely possible that neither one was at 100 percent, but they >> >> > rushed back due to the dire situation? >> >> > >> >> > I was actually worried about Lester most of the summer. He went on >> >> > the >> >> > DL with the strained Lat in July, and when he got back, Tito >> >> > immediately insisted on riding him hard -- with big pitch counts -- >> >> > even in games where the Sox had big leads, even when the Sox had a >> >> > big >> >> > lead in the standings. He didn't have good command for most of the >> >> > second half of the season. Yes, if Lester was in NFL-linebacker >> >> > physical condition, maybe he wouldn't have worn down, but he's never >> >> > been in that kind of condition. >> >> > >> >> > I think just plain bad pitching was the reason for the epic collapse. >> >> > The pressure once the collapse started certainly didn't help, but >> >> > clubhouse chemistry and beer are just scapegoats. There wasn't a >> >> > single whiff of complaint in either regard on Aug. 31. It wasn't >> >> > until >> >> > after the fact that everyone started searching for a narrative to >> >> > explain things. >> >> > >> >> > Anyway, glad to see both the Rays and Yanks done. >> >> > >> >> > Steve O >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> Steve, what is your reason for the epic collapse? They tried their >> >> >> best >> >> >> and >> >> >> just failed...repeatedly? Just bad luck? >> >> >> Yes, the team lost because they didn't play well. But there might be >> >> >> things >> >> >> that led to that. >> >> >> I'm not really buying the beer thing either, but if pitchers strayed >> >> >> from >> >> >> programs that made them successful in the past than that's a very >> >> >> real >> >> >> thing, and a problem. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steve Ouellette >> >> >> <[email protected]> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> There are a lot of successful fat pitchers. Curt Schilling was >> >> >>> hefty. >> >> >>> David Wells was enormously successful in the postseason. They're >> >> >>> baseball players, not athletes, and the whole beer thing is just a >> >> >>> convenient excuse for the epic collapse. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Steve O >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Ray <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>> I've come to the conclusion that I agree with Tom. The season was >> >> >>>> lost >> >> >>>> to fat pitchers who couldn't pitch. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> For this I blame the pitching coach who let them get fat. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> I blame Francona for protecting our fatsos in the media and >> >> >>>> protecting >> >> >>>> the enabling pitching coach. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Finally I blame Theo for bringing us Dice-K and Lackey, and for >> >> >>>> letting >> >> >>>> the pitching staff get fat. I think that the Sox developed a >> >> >>>> culture >> >> >>>> of fame >> >> >>>> with no pressure or expectations. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Pressure won't make you pitch better in a game, but it will keep >> >> >>>> the >> >> >>>> beer from your lips and get you to push back from the buffet >> >> >>>> table. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> -- >> >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> >>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/redsoxcitizens/-/NkMuGU0mLpMJ. >> >> >>>> To post to this group, send email to >> >> >>>> [email protected]. >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >>>> [email protected]. >> >> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> >>> Groups >> >> >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >> >>> To post to this group, send email to >> >> >>> [email protected]. >> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >>> [email protected]. >> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> >> Groups >> >> >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to >> >> >> [email protected]. >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> >> [email protected]. >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> > Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> > [email protected]. >> >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> >> Groups >> >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> >> [email protected]. >> >> For more options, visit this group at >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Author of Confessions of a Good Mother: The story of an assassin and mom who > struggles with life balance issues. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. 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