Awesome
--- Harms/Burke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hmmm, I am just taking what Dr. MacKillop has not > >theorized on, but stated... > > > > he stated his speculative theory- he has presented > no evidence whatsoever > as to where and when the name conor came into being, > nor is this the least > bit relevant to the topic at hand- the name conan, > which is the name under > discussion. no one has disputed the antiquity of the > name conan. i simply > stated for comparison that the correct > pronounciation of conan is close to > the proounciation of conor- and i am correct in my > assertion. > > JB > > > > ( he being a former > >professor of English at Syracuse U., aforementioned > >pres. of the American Conference for Irish Studies, > >and not to mention the Visiting Fellow in Celtic > >Languages at Harvard and a 3 time published author > for > >Oxford Press) I figured that he probably knows. > jesse > > > > he speculates- that is not the same as knowing, and > far from first-hand > knowledge. i might add as a caveat that there are > many gaelic words which > have entered the english language which are not > given proper credit in the > word origin portions of webster's dictionaries- > which are considered > authoritative. so authority is not the final word in > any argument- > tradition and precedent precede and supercede > authority. > > in a court cases, authorities form each side offer > their _opinions_, but > legal precedent overules them utterly. JB > > > > > > >> so anglicization is irrelevant to my previous > >> presentation- JB > > > > > > but the point that MacKillop illustrates > concerning > >the variance of pronounciation is very relevent, > which > >was the main idea behind the quotation jesse > > > > I have already pointed out that the CURRENT STATE OF > variance in > pronounciation cannot be traced back in time to the > point of origin of the > name conan- nor have you demonstrated that the name > conan is pronounced > differently in different locales of ireland- and > even if you could you > cannot demonstrate that these variations existed in > old irish- which is the > origin of the name. > > so variations of pronounciation in MODERN GAELIC are > irrelvant- exactly as > I stated. my statement still stands, and Mackillop > is still irrelevant. JB > > > > > > > >> every county of ireland has it's own dialect, BUT > we > >> cannot pretend... JB > > > > > > >... exactly, this is why I included the quotation > from > >Dr. MacKillop! I will re-quote: " ...Irish > >pronounciation in particular is not standardized." > >pretty final I would say. jesse > > > see above- modern gaelic is irrelevant to an old > irish name- conan- which > is the basis for REH's character. > > and even if every person in ireland pronounced the > name conan differently- > this is totally and completely irrelevant to the old > irish name- and conan > was a character who suppsosedly lived in antiquity- > not modern ireland- THE > THE ANTIQUE PRONOUNCIATION IS all that is relevant. > so you're rubber duck > is shot out of the water- modern gaelic is > irrelevant- AND THERE WAS NO > ANGLICIZATION IN OLD IRISH IN THE TIME AND PLACE > WHEN THE NAME WAS > ORIGINATED. JB > > > >> as to your government translations- well and > good, > >> but completely and > >> totally irrelevant unless your specialty is old > >> irish, and something tells > >> me it's not. JB > > > > > > Irrelevant to old Irish, jesse > > > no, irrelevant to this discusskion. your language > vocation is irrelevant to > this disscussion, unless you can speak with > authority on old irish- you > admitted you cannot- so irrelevant is an accurate > description of the state > of things now. > > this thread- which you begun when you requested the > correct pronounciation > of the name conan- > > it is pronounced as in the english word 'con'- not > the word 'cone'- > > accent on the first syllable- CoN-an > > it is not pronounced as in the prefix co > (co-operative) or the word cone. > > if you really want to get technical- conan is a > gealic name and the cymry- > the tribe conan was supposed to come from- spoke a > goidelic language. so > the name conan never really would have existed in > old goidelic- and there > never was a member of the tuath of the cymry who > would or could have had > such a name. > > however, if you like, I will check the insciptions > of every ogham stone in > Britain and verify the non-existence of such a name > in goidelic. > > it would have entered that language when parts of > wales were colonized by > irish after the roman period in britain. > > and further if an author writes about a culture, and > uses the names of that > culture, and if he is unable to properly pronounce > the names of that > culture of which he writes, this in no way alters > the FACT that the names > and the culture pre-existed- and THAT TRADITION, and > that precedent of that > pre-existing tradition, is the final word on the > spelling and > pronounciation of that name. > > not the author who cannot speak the language. > > not the reader who cannot speak the language. > > though they are free to mispronounce all they like. > > example: > > the name yasmin/yasmine occurs in many REH stories- > some in america may > pronounce it YAASmin, but the correct traditional > form would be yas-MEEN. > > a writer may write a story set in spain and use the > name of a character > pedro, believing that it is pronounced peedro- > > this is incorrect and the author's mistake cannot > change the fact that the > === message truncated === ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
