Of course the marketplace works as I described it especially in the US. Groups thrive and shrivel and respond to and interact with the culture and if they cannot adapt to broadbased moral and social changes by changing their beliefs and practices, they become marginalized. Groups spin off of other groups. The many religions that supported slavery and the subjection of women and children to state-sponsored patriarchal control have had to adjust or choose the sidelines. Hasn't CLS conceded that the school can enforce race discrimination laws?
Marci Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Esenberg, Richard" <richard.esenb...@marquette.edu> Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:32:59 To: hamilto...@aol.com<hamilto...@aol.com>; Law & Religion issues for LawAcademics<religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> Subject: RE: A real-life on-campus example The right of expressive association is not a demand for government protection in the market place of ideas or a demand for government support. It is, rather, a shield against government compulsion, i.e., the demand that an organization not define itself by adherance to any particular creed or that it engage in practices inconsistent with its expressive message or core beliefs. While in the public forum context, it might involve access to a government benefit but that is a function of the government's decision to establish a forum and the (quite reasonble rule) that, if it chooses to do so, it may not discriminate on the basis of viewpoint. This doesn't immunize religious organizations from the market place of ideas which, in any event, does not work as she thinks it does. Churches regularly impose creedal requirements on clergy, leaders and members. If congregants don't like it, they leave much as those who don't like CLS policy could leave as well. The problem with "takeovers" - whether effected through rules of a public forum or antidiscrimination laws - is that they would undermine the capacity of minority or, more specifically, unpopular groups to associate for a particular expressive purpose because, as soon as they choose to combine, they must be prepared, in this context, to permit others to come in and not simply expose their creed to the market place of ideas (that happens in all events) but to vote it out. Professor Rick Esenberg Marquette University Law School Sensenbrenner Hall 321C 1103 W. Wisconsin Avenue Milwaukee, WI 53201 (o) 414-288-6908 (m)414-213-3957 (f) 414-288-6975 ________________________________________ From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] on behalf of hamilto...@aol.com [hamilto...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:09 AM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: A real-life on-campus example It is not majoritarian but rather the marketplace. Expressive association is a new right with little justification in history and I am beginning to think a large step toward government sponsored Balkanization Does the government have an obligation to make sure dwindling religions remain viable. I would say absolutely not. But apparently Mark would disagree? Marci Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Scarberry, Mark" <mark.scarbe...@pepperdine.edu> Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 19:11:04 To: <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> Subject: RE: A real-life on-campus example _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
