A circuit judge being arrogant? Condescending? In control of his courtroom? Interrupting counsel? A judge trying to pin down a lawyer with a loaded question?
Seems pretty normal to me. If a judge asks a question with a hidden premise, you can attack that premise, and the judge will appreciate having that aspect revealed — but only if you answer the question given his or her premise in the first place. Advocates should also be aware that at times their best friend on the court turns out to be the one challenging you the most because once you’ve answered their questions, they can decide based on their judgment on all the aspects of the case. Of course it is more common that judges argue their position through questions. In terms of the interrupting judge — if it is too excessive, one can eventually ask to be allowed to finish the point. -- Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 Director of International Programs, Institute for Intellectual Property and Social Justice http://iipsj.org Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 http://iipsj.com/SDJ/ Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are. -- Augustine of Hippo. On Feb 14, 2014, at 10:45 AM, davidebernst...@aol.com wrote: > Howard Bashman: Several times during the oral argument, Judge Posner told > Kairis “Please don’t interrupt me.” At least several of those times, however, > it was Judge Posner who was interrupting Kairis, who then failed to stop > talking. Instead of trying to prove the point “You don’t interrupt me; > rather, I interrupt you,” maybe Judge Posner could have better communicated > his message by telling the advocate, “When I start talking, you must stop > talking.” > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Laycock <dlayc...@virginia.edu> > To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics' <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>; > 'CONLAWPROFS professors' <conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu> > Sent: Fri, Feb 14, 2014 10:17 am > Subject: RE: Posner on oral advocacy in religion case > > I haven’t listened to the tape and don’t intend to. From the short written > story, probably they should both be embarrassed. The lawyer behaved badly, > and Posner over reacted. > > Big firm lawyers sometimes expect special deference from lower court judges. > Sometimes they get it. Maybe he thought he should/would be allowed to > interrupt or equivocate. But Posner was the wrong judge to try that on. > > Back in Neolithic times, when I clerked at the Seventh Circuit, we had an > antitrust case with a complicated statutory interpretation question – > complicated principally because the statute wasn’t very well drafted. The > facts were simple. In those days vertical price fixing was a per se > violation, but there was an exception for state fair trade laws, and the > question was which state’s law applies. > > A partner from Sherman & Stearling came out from New York to argue the case, > and seemed to think he was visiting the less educated provinces. He drew a > panel of Stevens, Cummings, and Sprecher, which was about as good a > three-judge panel as you could draw anywhere in the country in those days. > And Stevens had been an antitrust lawyer. > > But the guy was completely condescending. He brought an easel with an outline > map of Missouri and Arkansas, showing a wholesaler in one state and a > retailer in the other, so that they could understand this complicated choice > of law problem. He went way over his time. His tone and demeanor was > condescending. Cummings was a soft touch presiding and let him get away with > it. > > Posner obviously would not – not in that case and not in Notre Dame’s either. > Jones Day should have been able to learn that with the tiniest bit of > homework. Wyzanski was worse; he would berate and humiliate lawyers who > didn’t meet his standards. > > The only safe thing for lawyers is to play by the usual rules. But if you > think you can create an exception, you have to know what judge you are > talking to. > > Douglas Laycock > Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law > University of Virginia Law School > 580 Massie Road > Charlottesville, VA 22903 > 434-243-8546 > > From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Steven Jamar > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 7:47 AM > To: CONLAWPROFS professors; Law Religion & Law List > Subject: Posner on oral advocacy in religion case > > Judge Posner gives 1L lesson on oral advocacy to Notre Dame's lawyer on oral > in freedom of religion case. Pretty basic 1L stuff. Embarrassing for the > attorney — and his firm and school. > > http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/Posner_tells_BigLaw_chief_stop_babbling_threatens_to_end_7th_Circuit_arg/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_email > > -- > Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 > Director of International Programs, Institute for Intellectual Property and > Social Justice http://iipsj.org > Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 > http://iipsj.com/SDJ/ > > > "Enduring high school is not the same as growing up Jewish in Prague or > fighting in the French Resistance. I had no solid basis for being cool in > that existential motorcycle James Dean absurdist chain-smoking hero sort of > way, so I gave up being cool and settled for being pleasant." > > > Garrison Keillor > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. > Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people > can > read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the > messages to others. > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to conlawp...@lists.ucla.edu > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/conlawprof > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; > people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) > forward the messages to others.
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
