It is astonishing how much defiance there is of the basic principles of Engel and Schempp. The cases are periodic, but the facts are striking and they make you wonder what’s really going on out there.
So, for example, one recent case out of the Southern District of Mississippi involved videos shown during school assemblies encouraging conversion to Christianity, prayers delivered by invited clergy, and Gideons distributing Bibles. All flagrant violations of the rules—for example, with the Gideons, the principal had instructed the teachers by email to make sure that the students came into contact with the Gideons—“Gideons will set up in the lobby of the fifth grade building at 7:35. Fifth grade teachers—please walk your class through the lobby at that time.” The case is M.B. ex rel. Bedi v. Rankin Cty. Sch. Dist., No. 3:13CV241-CWR-FKB, 2015 WL 5023115 (S.D. Miss. July 10, 2015). Another case, coming out of South Carolina, involved graduation prayer at an elementary school. The district judge remarked: “[T]he undersigned's most overwhelming rhetorical reaction to all of this is how in 2015 is there still any debate or legal nuance to hash over prayers at graduation?” Am. Humanist Ass'n. v. S.C. Dep't of Educ., 108 F. Supp. 3d 355, 358 (D.S.C. 2015). Indeed. When I taught in Mississippi, there was a teacher at a public high school near Vicksburg who had been fired at least twice for insisting on praying with her class. Both times, there was such an outcry that the school district felt obliged to take her back. She made no promises not to do the same thing in the future. As far as I know, she’s still there. Best, Chris ___________________________ Christopher C. Lund Associate Professor of Law Wayne State University Law School 471 West Palmer St. Detroit, MI 48202 l...@wayne.edu (313) 577-4046 (phone) Website—http://law.wayne.edu/profile/christopher.lund/ Papers—http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=363402 From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Nelson Tebbe Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 10:18 AM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> Subject: Re: Bible classes in elementary schools CBS This Morning produced a piece about the case in early February — I appear (very) briefly: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawsuit-to-end-bible-class-west-virginia-mercer-county-public-schools-separation-church-state/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab8d&linkId=34252653 They obtained some powerful footage from parents and students who support the class. Nelson Tebbe On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:05 AM, Michael Masinter <masin...@nova.edu<mailto:masin...@nova.edu>> wrote: I grew up in Charleston, W.Va. and attended Kanawha County public schools beginning in 1952 from the first grade through the ninth grade; even before Engle and Abbington Township, we did not have bible study classes. The school district was surprisingly compliant with the constitution as construed by SCOTUS; it ended de jure segregation in the fall of 1954, and ended opening prayers following Engle. Unfortunately, the school district was not representative of the state as a whole. Mike Michael R. Masinter Professor of Law Nova Southeastern University 3305 College Avenue Fort Lauderdale, FL 33314 954.262.6151 masin...@nova.edu<mailto:masin...@nova.edu> From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu> [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Chambers, Hank Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 8:52 AM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu>> Subject: Re: Bible classes in elementary schools Hello all - My wife grew up Catholic in Bluefield, Mercer County, W.Va., in the 1980s, and took Bible in middle school. Her take: "Of course, it is unconstitutional and has been for decades, and you felt like an outsider/strange one if you did not take the class." I was bemused when I heard about the Bible class decades ago, but chalked it up to local custom. Go to http://www.mercerbits.org/aboutus.htm for more information about the Bible in the Schools program. Very interesting. Hank Henry L. Chambers, Jr. Professor of Law University of Richmond School of Law 28 Westhampton Way Richmond, Va. 23173 (804) 289-8199 hcham...@richmond.edu<mailto:hcham...@richmond.edu> ________________________________ From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu> <religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu>> on behalf of Steven Jamar <stevenja...@gmail.com<mailto:stevenja...@gmail.com>> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 4:34 AM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Bible classes in elementary schools I do an informal raise your hand sort of survey of those students in my con law class who had in-public-school instruction in Christianity in elementary school. It ranges from a low of 15% to around 50% each year. Once a student asked me if Catholicism counted as Christian. In that case it was indeed a public school, but only one teacher doing it. Steve Sent from Steve's iPhone On Apr 23, 2017, at 11:48 PM, Finkelman, Paul <paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu<mailto:paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu>> wrote: The community apparently raises $500,000 a year for the course – that should cover attorney’s fees. Nice irony if the county and the donors help support the Freedom From Religion Foundation. ******************* Paul Finkelman John E. Murray Visiting Professor of Law University of Pittsburgh School of Law 3900 Forbes Avenue Pittsburgh, PA 15260 paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu<mailto:paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu> paul.finkel...@yahoo.com<mailto:paul.finkel...@yahoo.com> paul.finkel...@pitt.edu<mailto:paul.finkel...@pitt.edu> o) 412-648-2079 c) 518-605-0296 From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu> [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Ira Lupu Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:36 PM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: Bible classes in elementary schools I think it is impossible to teach a constitutionally defensible Bible class to 7 year olds. And anytime the Bible course is described as "history," the game is over. What a waste of money for this School District to have to pay the plaintiffs' attorneys fees, even if Liberty Institute is representing the School Board for free. On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:27 PM Laycock, H Douglas (hdl5c) <hd...@virginia.edu<mailto:hd...@virginia.edu>> wrote: One could teach a constitutional Bible course in public schools. The odds that they are teaching it that way in Princeton, WV seem vanishingly small. And the story's quotations from the curriculum seem to eliminate that slim possibility. Of course there is no constituency for teaching the Bible in the agnostic way that would be constitutional. The political demand is to teach it as Sunday School. Douglas Laycock Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 ________________________________ From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu> [religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu>] on behalf of Marty Lederman [martin.leder...@law.georgetown.edu<mailto:martin.leder...@law.georgetown.edu>] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 9:49 PM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Bible classes in elementary schools Any possibility this<https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/a-popular-public-school-bible-class-in-west-virginia-faces-legal-challenge/2017/04/23/14c50460-2144-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html> is constitutional? _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. -- Sent from Gmail Mobile F. Elwood & Eleanor Davis Professor of Law George Washington University _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
