And remember that the cases that are actually brought are just the tip of the iceberg.
I'm convinced that one reason that these aren't challenged often enough to eradicate them entirely is that few people want to be the "Jew/atheist/Muslim/secular humanist/agnostic/etc who stole Christmas." What parents want to make their children a pariah in a small community by taking away the Bible? This is a version of the soft coercion that Kennedy spoke of, only here the coercion is not necessarily in respectful participation but in tolerating a clear constitutional violation. On Monday, April 24, 2017, Christopher Lund <l...@wayne.edu> wrote: > It is astonishing how much defiance there is of the basic principles of *Engel > *and *Schempp*. The cases are periodic, but the facts are striking and > they make you wonder what’s really going on out there. > > > > So, for example, one recent case out of the Southern District of > Mississippi involved videos shown during school assemblies encouraging > conversion to Christianity, prayers delivered by invited clergy, and > Gideons distributing Bibles. All flagrant violations of the rules—for > example, with the Gideons, the principal had instructed the teachers by > email to make sure that the students came into contact with the > Gideons—“Gideons will set up in the lobby of the fifth grade building at > 7:35. Fifth grade teachers—please walk your class through the lobby at that > time.” The case is M*.B. ex rel. Bedi v. Rankin Cty. Sch. Dist*., No. > 3:13CV241-CWR-FKB, 2015 WL 5023115 (S.D. Miss. July 10, 2015). > > > > Another case, coming out of South Carolina, involved graduation prayer at > an elementary school. The district judge remarked: “[T]he undersigned's > most overwhelming rhetorical reaction to all of this is how in 2015 is > there still any debate or legal nuance to hash over prayers at > graduation?” Am. Humanist Ass'n. v. S.C. Dep't of Educ., 108 F. Supp. 3d > 355, 358 (D.S.C. 2015). Indeed. > > > > When I taught in Mississippi, there was a teacher at a public high school > near Vicksburg who had been fired at least twice for insisting on praying > with her class. Both times, there was such an outcry that the school > district felt obliged to take her back. She made no promises not to do the > same thing in the future. As far as I know, she’s still there. > > > > Best, > > Chris > > ___________________________ > > Christopher C. Lund > > Associate Professor of Law > > Wayne State University Law School > > 471 West Palmer St. > > Detroit, MI 48202 > > l...@wayne.edu <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','l...@wayne.edu');> > > (313) 577-4046 (phone) > > Website—http://law.wayne.edu/profile/christopher.lund/ > > Papers—http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=363402 > > > > *From:* religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');> > [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');>] *On > Behalf Of *Nelson Tebbe > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 10:18 AM > *To:* Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu');>> > *Subject:* Re: Bible classes in elementary schools > > > > > > > > CBS This Morning produced a piece about the case in early February — I > appear (very) briefly: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lawsuit-to-end-bible- > class-west-virginia-mercer-county-public-schools- > separation-church-state/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab8d&linkId=34252653 They > obtained some powerful footage from parents and students who support the > class. > > > > Nelson Tebbe > > > > On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:05 AM, Michael Masinter <masin...@nova.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','masin...@nova.edu');>> wrote: > > > > I grew up in Charleston, W.Va. and attended Kanawha County public schools > beginning in 1952 from the first grade through the ninth grade; even before > Engle and Abbington Township, we did not have bible study classes. The > school district was surprisingly compliant with the constitution as > construed by SCOTUS; it ended de jure segregation in the fall of 1954, and > ended opening prayers following Engle. Unfortunately, the school district > was not representative of the state as a whole. > > > > Mike > > > > Michael R. Masinter > > Professor of Law > > Nova Southeastern University > > 3305 College Avenue > > Fort Lauderdale, FL 33314 > > 954.262.6151 > > masin...@nova.edu <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','masin...@nova.edu');> > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');> [ > mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');>] *On > Behalf Of *Chambers, Hank > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 8:52 AM > *To:* Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu');>> > *Subject:* Re: Bible classes in elementary schools > > > > Hello all - > > > > My wife grew up Catholic in Bluefield, Mercer County, W.Va., in the 1980s, > and took Bible in middle school. Her take: "Of course, it is > unconstitutional and has been for decades, and you felt like an > outsider/strange one if you did not take the class." I was bemused when I > heard about the Bible class decades ago, but chalked it up to local custom. > > > > Go to http://www.mercerbits.org/aboutus.htm for more information about > the Bible in the Schools program. Very interesting. > > > > Hank > > > > Henry L. Chambers, Jr. > > Professor of Law > > University of Richmond School of Law > > 28 Westhampton Way > > Richmond, Va. 23173 > > (804) 289-8199 > > hcham...@richmond.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hcham...@richmond.edu');> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');> < > religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');>> on > behalf of Steven Jamar <stevenja...@gmail.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stevenja...@gmail.com');>> > *Sent:* Monday, April 24, 2017 4:34 AM > *To:* Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > *Subject:* Re: Bible classes in elementary schools > > > > I do an informal raise your hand sort of survey of those students in my > con law class who had in-public-school instruction in Christianity in > elementary school. It ranges from a low of 15% to around 50% each year. > Once a student asked me if Catholicism counted as Christian. In that case > it was indeed a public school, but only one teacher doing it. > > > > Steve > > Sent from Steve's iPhone > > > > > On Apr 23, 2017, at 11:48 PM, Finkelman, Paul < > paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu');>> wrote: > > The community apparently raises $500,000 a year for the course – that > should cover attorney’s fees. Nice irony if the county and the donors help > support the Freedom From Religion Foundation. > > > > > > ******************* > > Paul Finkelman > > John E. Murray Visiting Professor of Law > > University of Pittsburgh School of Law > > 3900 Forbes Avenue > > Pittsburgh, PA 15260 > > paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','paul.finkel...@albanylaw.edu');> > > paul.finkel...@yahoo.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','paul.finkel...@yahoo.com');> > > paul.finkel...@pitt.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','paul.finkel...@pitt.edu');> > > o) 412-648-2079 > > c) 518-605-0296 > > > > > > > > *From:* religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');> [ > mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');>] *On > Behalf Of *Ira Lupu > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:36 PM > *To:* Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > *Subject:* Re: Bible classes in elementary schools > > > > I think it is impossible to teach a constitutionally defensible Bible > class to 7 year olds. And anytime the Bible course is described as > "history," the game is over. What a waste of money for this School District > to have to pay the plaintiffs' attorneys fees, even if Liberty Institute is > representing the School Board for free. > > On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:27 PM Laycock, H Douglas (hdl5c) < > hd...@virginia.edu <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hd...@virginia.edu');>> > wrote: > > One *could* teach a constitutional Bible course in public schools. The > odds that they are teaching it that way in Princeton, WV seem vanishingly > small. And the story's quotations from the curriculum seem to eliminate > that slim possibility. > > > > Of course there is no constituency for teaching the Bible in the agnostic > way that would be constitutional. The political demand is to teach it as > Sunday School. > > > > Douglas Laycock > > Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law > > University of Virginia > > 580 Massie Road > > Charlottesville, VA 22903 > > 434-243-8546 > ------------------------------ > > *From:* religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');> [ > religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu');>] on > behalf of Marty Lederman [martin.leder...@law.georgetown.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','martin.leder...@law.georgetown.edu');>] > > > *Sent:* Sunday, April 23, 2017 9:49 PM > *To:* Law & Religion issues for Law Academics > *Subject:* Bible classes in elementary schools > > Any possibility this > <https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/a-popular-public-school-bible-class-in-west-virginia-faces-legal-challenge/2017/04/23/14c50460-2144-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html> > is constitutional? > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu');> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. > > -- > > Sent from Gmail Mobile > F. Elwood & Eleanor Davis Professor of Law > George Washington University > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu');> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu');> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or > wrongly) forward the messages to others. > > > -- Hillel Y. Levin Associate Professor University of Georgia School of Law Director, Georgia Law in Atlanta 120 Herty Dr. Athens, GA 30602 (678) 641-7452 hle...@uga.edu hillelle...@gmail.com SSRN Author Page: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=466645
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
