I have already tried just inserting a WAV file, properly named, into the audio store without importing, and RDLibrary does not recognize it is there.
The station has settled on Audacity, so that there is uniformity and group knowledge to help other volunteers, so I am most likely to remain with it, but I will personally look into that list of editors you collected. Thanks! My system is a remote backup to the main studio, in case of failure there, so I am seldom actually on-air, thus I have time to implement the upgrade to 3.3. As noted, I cannot now go back to 2.10.3, but if I find the problem still exists in 3.3, I will experiment with your suggestions. I do note that some of the problems I experienced in 2.10.3 are still extant in 3.3. I never bothered to report them, because I thought it could be the OS I was running 2.10.3 on (Linux Mint), but I am now using the appliance install on completely different hardware, and those issues still exist. Just two of them are that all markers set EXCEPT the cut end marker, shift to the left (earlier) one notch, EVERY TIME the edit markers are saved. 2.10.2 on Mint did not do this. Also, any time a cart is dragged and dropped from RDLibrary into AirPlay, when the pie widget is set to Transition, the pie widget jumps and the countdown for the track currently playing becomes cut End, not Transition. I will report these again separately when I get more time. Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. --Chuck On We, 2020-04-01 at 07:32 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > Chuck, > > One thought on a different workflow that may sneakily get around the > problem... > > Let's say we are working with cart 123456, cut 001 so we have file > 123456_001.wav in /var/snd > > Instead of using rdlibrary to copy cut 001 and paste to cut 002 > putting a copy of 123456_001.wav in 123456_002.wav into /var/snd and > hopefully showing up correctly in rdlibrary and then your process, > let's try this: > > Import some random audio to cart 123456 cut 2. This puts that random > audio, unrelated to cart 123456 into the cart as cut 2 and into > /var/snd as 123456_002.wav. > > Now, make a copy of 123456_001.wav, make the edits you want, export > to /var/snd/123456_002.wav and reopen in rdlibrary. > > Or, copy 123456_001.wav over 123456_002.wav and proceed from that > point as per your normal routine. > > Alternate editors... > > Many years ago, I used something called rezound a good bit for hobby > work. I seem to remember something called sweep. > > Some quick repo searches shows: > > kwave - sound editor for KDE > mhwaveedit - Simple and fast GTK2 sound editor > snd-gtk-pulse - Sound file editor (GTK+ user interface - PulseAudio) > sweep - Audio editor and live playback tool > > Since you mention trying ardour, there is also: > > traverso - Multitrack audio recorder and editor > qtractor - MIDI/Audio multi-track sequencer application > ecasound - multitrack-capable audio recorder and effect processor > lmms - Linux Multimedia Studio > > > Also: > > cecilia - Sound synthesis and audio signal processing environment > rosegarden - music editor and MIDI/audio sequencer > > all the best, > > drew > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:16 PM Chuck <dj.chuc...@googlemail.com> > wrote: > > On Tu, 2020-03-31 at 16:45 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > > > So... > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chuck <dj.chuc...@googlemail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > Here are my steps. > > > > > > > > Open a cart in RDLibrary. Highlight Cut 1; touch Copy; touch > > > > Add; > > > > highlight the new Cut 2; touch Paste. It is at this point that > > the > > > > track appears, but often shows 0:00 length and when trying to > > open > > > > with > > > > Edit Markers, the 'no audio in this cut' warning appears. > > However, > > > > the > > > > track has ALWAYS been placed in the audio store drive, just not > > > > recognized as there by RDLibrary. > > > > > > So, this is the only point where the problem occurs? Once you > > make it > > > past this hurdle you are golden? < > > > > Yes. If the track does not appear after Paste with a length of > > 0:00, > > then I am golden. > > > > Again, I was on 2.10.2 for a long time and never had this > > mysterious > > problem. It reared its head when I upgraded to 2.10.3. > > > > > If so, have you tried deleting the second cut and pasting again > > (in a > > > loop) until it shows up? Or once it fails the first time, will it > > > fail from then on? < > > > > I have tried that repeatedly; if the boot has this problem once, > > it > > will do it every time. If the boot does not have the problem, it > > is > > not a factor until another reboot. After each reboot, it seems > > random > > whether this problem exists or not. > > > > > > If the copy is successful, then I open the properly numbered > > _002 > > > > file from the audio store in Audacity. Perform the needed > > > > changes. > > > > Normalize to -13. Export back to the audio store, overwriting > > the > > > > _002 > > > > file. > > > > > > This is the point I thought the problem might be happening, when > > the > > > audio file Rivendell "knows" about gets changed out from under > > it. < > > > > If Rivendell sees the cut properly, I can do anything to it and > > return it to the audio store--including changing length--and there > > are > > no problems. When I open such a successful cut with Edit Markers, > > it > > automatically regenerates the proper time, if it changed, and > > everything in Rivendell works normally with that cut. > > > > > > I have tried exporting to a WAV file and importing as Cut 2, > > > > however > > > > that process is destructive. Only if I export directly back to > > the > > > > audio store, does quality remain high. > > > > > > Do you have a working theory as to why this is so? Is any part of > > > your workflow not in the digital realm? > > > > All digital. My intuition is that the actual Rivendell import is > > slightly destructive, as there is no discernible quality reduction > > if I > > put the exported WAV into an audio store cut that RDLibrary already > > recognizes--I am guessing that with 2 slightly destructive > > processes > > (Audacity plus RD import) the quality loss becomes noticeable. > > > > > If you export to a wav that is not in the audio store, and play > > that > > > with something like vlc, is the quality degraded? > > > > From changes made with Audacity? Yes. There is a slight quality > > loss with every import/change/export done with Audacity. Noise > > floor > > is also definitely raised, and RD's autotrim sees that difference. > > If > > you import/change/export a file in Audacity, then import the > > changed > > file and do more work on it and export it again, the quality loss > > becomes noticeable. Kind of like generational loss in the audio > > tape > > days. > > > > With an original file created in Audacity, no discernible quality > > loss on export to WAV. Almost every day, I record the weather > > report > > for the station in Audacity and export to a WAV file that has no > > discernible quality loss when imported to RD. > > > > I have experimented re-importing a WAV cut that I have taken from > > the > > RD audio store, and re-import it--noticeable quality loss. So I > > assume > > RD is not just copying that file into the audio store, but does > > something destructive with the import. > > > > > When that exported Cut is > > > > opened again in RDLibrary, the time is updated if changed, and > > I > > > > always > > > > double-check the markers, anyway. > > > > > > > > There is still a bit of quality loss and the noise floor is > > > > raised by > > > > using Audacity, because it converts into and out of it's own > > > > format. > > > > If I am just shortening a track (we have a 6:30 time limit on > > all > > > > songs, > > > > > > How do you shorten you songs? (Not germane to the issue, just > > > wondering.) < > > > > Usually using Exact Audio Copy's WAV editor. If careful and > > using > > the 'zero crossing adjustment' the edits are completely > > indiscernible. > > The great thing about doing this digitally, is if you make a > > mistake, > > just undo and do again. In magnetic tape days, recovering from a > > splicing error was a nightmare. > > > > > > so the ID always makes it within the legal time limits), I use > > > > the WAV editor in Exact Audio Copy which is not destructive. > > That > > > > editor is very hard to work with, though, as the interface is > > not > > > > very > > > > helpful. > > > > > > Do you have access to any other programs that wan work with your > > wav > > > files? Similar results or? < > > > > I do not know of any other editor that actually works without > > format > > conversion, except EAC's WAV editor. I have tried Ardour in place > > of > > Audacity, but its interface is too cumbersome to work efficiently > > and > > quickly. > > > > > So the copy process is done by RDLibrary, editing by external > > > > software, then the finished product returned directly back to > > the > > > > audio store. < > > > > Correct. > > > > As I noted, I am moving to v3.3 and the v2.10.3 is history due to > > RAM > > failure in the older machine, which RAM is soldered in, not > > pluggable. > > I have not yet had enough time with 3.3 to know if this problem > > still > > exists. But eventually, I will find out. Fortunately, I was well > > backed up. > > > > > Right, that is where I thought your problem might be occurring > > but, > > > iiuc, it is happening before that. > > > iiuc, it is happening before that. > > > > I changed my methods a bit to cope with this problem. > > Instead of > > > > operating on the copied track, I now edit the original Cut 1 > > track, > > > > considering that the pasted-but-disabled track can suffice as > > the > > > > original untouched track, and hope that one day the cause of > > this > > > > problem will be identified and somehow all those supposedly > > non- > > > > existent tracks that now litter the audio store can be re- > > > > recognized. > > > > > > > > Hope that explains. > > > > > > I am still not certain, but it is much clearer... > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > On Mo, 2020-03-30 at 20:06 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > > > > > Chuck, > > > > > > > > > > I am asking for a bit of clarification and, if I am reading > > your > > > > > process right, I have a suggestion for an alternative process > > > > that > > > > > may make a difference. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:44 PM Chuck < > > dj.chuc...@googlemail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > This sounds like a problem I had way back with v2.10.3, > > which > > > > > > Cowboy > > > > > > said he also encountered in later versions. It's a file > > that > > > > > > actually > > > > > > exists in the audio store, but which the Library and > > AirPlay > > > > say > > > > > > does > > > > > > not contain audio. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here was my experience. There are some songs that I want > > to > > > > do > > > > > > things to--like add reverb to the last note that might end > > in a > > > > way > > > > > > that makes it sounds chopped, or raise the volume on a > > fade-out > > > > to > > > > > > keep > > > > > > the level up until the desired segue point. In the > > library, I > > > > > > would > > > > > > copy cut 1 and paste to a new cut 2, > > > > > > > > > > I just went into my 3.x rdlibrary and did this for a test > > cart. > > > > > > > > > > > operate on cut 2 to achieve the > > > > > > desired result, > > > > > > > > > > Where / how are you doing this? Somewhere in rdlibrary? Or > > with > > > > an > > > > > audio editor "behind Rivendell's back" as it were? I am > > guessing > > > > the > > > > > latter. > > > > > > > > > > > then weight the original cut 1 to zero so it never > > > > > > played, but preserving that original track. > > > > > > > > > > If I am guessing correctly, the second cut has been altered > > and > > > > > rivendell did not do the altering. > > > > > > > > > > (I can't recall if I have ever done this in the past for > > other > > > > > reasons, I am fairly certain I have never tired what I think > > you > > > > are > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > I never had a problem in a > > > > > > couple years on v2.10.2, but in 2.10.3, that cut 2 paste > > would > > > > show > > > > > > 0:00 length and when opening the marker editor, it would > > claim > > > > > > there > > > > > > was no audio present in the cut--even though the cut 2 > > track > > > > > > existed in > > > > > > the audio store, and played fine with other software, > > showing > > > > no > > > > > > errors. > > > > > > > > > > If I am guessing correctly, here is an alternate workflow > > that > > > > may > > > > > make a difference for you if you have not already tried it > > and > > > > found > > > > > it does not make a difference. > > > > > > > > > > copy the cut in question to a working directory: > > > > > > > > > > cp /var/snd/000001_001.wav /tmp/working.wav > > > > > > > > > > operate on /tmp/working.wav to achieve the desired result > > > > > > > > > > click on import/export button to import another cut into the > > cart > > > > > select /tmp/working.wav > > > > > > > > > > Do your cut weighting trick per your usual workflow. > > > > > > > > > > This is all done with Rivendell watching "what it wants to > > > > watch"... > > > > > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > > > > > Now what's worse, is that this did not always happen. I > > > > could > > > > > > reboot, and sometimes things worked normally, as expected. > > But > > > > > > often > > > > > > when pasting into cut 2, the length would show as 0:00 and > > I > > > > knew > > > > > > RD > > > > > > would never, ever admit there was actually audio on that > > cut. > > > > > > > > > > > > This sounds like it could be similar to the problem you > > are > > > > > > having. > > > > > > My experience was that once the Library said that cut had > > no > > > > audio, > > > > > > no > > > > > > amount of rebooting or database checking would make it say > > that > > > > > > already > > > > > > existing pasted cut was playable. But rebooting sometimes > > > > cured > > > > > > the > > > > > > problem of the Library pasting a 0:00 track into a new cut. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just moving to v3.3, so I have not had enough time > > with > > > > it to > > > > > > see > > > > > > if that problem still exists. I never saw a fix reported, > > only > > > > > > Cowboys' report that he had seen it, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mo, 30 Mar 2020 01:25:09 -0700 > > > > > > > Rich Stivers <r...@stivers-bros.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drew: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for these ideas. I'll try them and get back to the > > > > group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/29/2020 4:54 AM, drew Roberts wrote: > > > > > > > > Rich, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no pointers exactly but a few questions that might help > > > > isolate > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will it play from rdlibrary? > > > > > > > > rdcartslots? > > > > > > > > rdpanel? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may need to configure sound cards for some of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you set markers in rdlibrary? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do this with the file that does not play and to a file > > that > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > play > > > > > > > > and compare: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $ mediainfo /var/snd/017197_001.wav > > > > > > > > $ mediainfo /var/snd/017198_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you see any obvious differences? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may need to install mediainfo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 5:05 AM Rich Stivers < > > > > > > r...@stivers-bros.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:r...@stivers-bros.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This problem started recently. When I hit Start on > > a > > > > cart > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > queued in RdAirplay, the cart does not play and > > goes > > > > away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In /var/log/messages I see these entries for the > > cart I > > > > > > > > attempted > > > > > > > > to play: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mar 27 20:35:40 rdhost rdairplay: finished event: > > Line: > > > > 0? > > > > > > > > Cart: > > > > > > > > 428214? Cut: 1 Card: -1? Stream: -1? Port: -1 > > > > > > > > Mar 27 20:35:40 rdhost rdairplay: > > > > LogPlay::StartEvent(): no > > > > > > > > audio,CUT=428214_001 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The wav file for this cart exists and will play > > with > > > > the > > > > > > 'play' > > > > > > > > command. > > > > > > > > play /var/snd/428214_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rddbcheck passes without errors. I'm running Centos > > 7 > > > > with > > > > > > > > Rivendell v2.19.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what this error means, rdhost > > > > rdairplay: > > > > > > > > LogPlay::StartEvent(): no audio,CUT=?? Does 'no > > audio' > > > > mean > > > > > > > > it thinks the file is missing, or it found a > > problem > > > > with > > > > > > > > pulseaudio? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any pointers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rich Stivers > > > > > > > > KKUP-FM Cupertino/San Jose CA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Rivendell-dev mailing list > > > > > > > > Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org > > > > > > > > <mailto:Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing > > > > > > > > *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - > > https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Rivendell-dev mailing list > > > > > > Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org > > > > > > > > > > > > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Rivendell-dev mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
