Adam... ReactOS will not be Win Vista/7 ;)
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Adam <[email protected]> wrote: > And what about people with computers older than 2007 and/or people who do > not want to (and/or cannot) pay $$$ for an upgrade and/or people who do not > want to install an operating system that takes up 15GB of disk space? > > > On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 03:59:46 +1000, Alex Ionescu <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Update to Windows Vista+, which has KTM. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Alex Ionescu >> >> On 2011-06-04, at 10:21 AM, Adam wrote: >> >> A number of times (eg. .NET install/AV install) I have had it happen at >>> the end of the install. Then when I attempt to uninstall it there are errors >>> produced regarding it (often not just after a fresh install of Windows; I >>> mean after using the computer for some time - particularly after updating >>> Windows Installer) then it makes the product difficult (if not impossible) >>> to uninstall. >>> >>> On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 00:07:44 +1000, Zachary Gorden < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> And how many times does the database get corrupted? I've never run into >>>> it >>>> and the conditions that would cause a corruption would equally screw any >>>> other installer, since it would have to be a run that got interrupted >>>> mid-install. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Adam <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Next will you be suggesting for people to use MMC snapins as opposed to >>>>> writing standalone applications, because it is shitty standalone >>>>> applications that do things and not MMC? >>>>> >>>>> You can use WIX/MSI to write shitty installers too if I am not >>>>> mistaken. >>>>> I've seen brilliant NSIS/InstallShield installers and shitty MSI >>>>> installers. >>>>> And vice versa. >>>>> >>>>> As an end-user I must say MSI also tends to piss me off, particularly >>>>> when >>>>> the database gets corrupted and what not. Good concept though, but I >>>>> question the way it is implemented. I have written about what I think >>>>> about >>>>> MSI in another mail so no need for me to repeat myself. >>>>> >>>>> But what I am trying to suggest is that shitty installers will be >>>>> shitty >>>>> installers. You can write shitty installers in >>>>> >>>>> SuperDuperUltraInstallerLanguageSoGoodItIsGuaranteedToMakeOtherInstallersShitTheirPantsAndGoBankrupt >>>>> and they will still be shitty installers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 23:49:26 +1000, Alex Ionescu <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Oh, I do believe shitty software/installers do this. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Microsoft's technologies do not, however. >>>>>> >>>>>> So use WIX/MSI, not NSI/InstallShield. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> Alex Ionescu >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2011-06-04, at 9:23 AM, Kamil Hornicek wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm in charge of 40+ PCs running mostly XP at work. Believe me when I >>>>>> >>>>>>> tell you people do write their own code (or use the available API >>>>>>> incorrectly) for installers or some online activation bullshit. I >>>>>>> came >>>>>>> across several installers/apps that were unable to detect or use our >>>>>>> proxy >>>>>>> (we also use wpad for proxy autodiscovery via dns) and I always had >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> connect that PC directly to our gateway to make stuff install which >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> annoying as hell. I am not making this up, pay me a visit if you >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> otherwise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> K. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Ionescu" < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> To: "ReactOS Development List" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:20 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] 1294 [dreimer] Fix clean for cmake trees. ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Again all of this is irrelevant: since I think you are a Linux user, >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> can understand why you are confused. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Windows, all HTTP communication is done by WinHTTP and/or >>>>>>>> WinINET, >>>>>>>> nobody writes their own custom socket code. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WinHTTP/WinINET control the proxy settings for the machine. In fact, >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you use Google Chrome on Windows (or Safari) and go to the >>>>>>>> proxy/connection >>>>>>>> settings, you will see "IE's" proxy connection dialog -- because >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> settings/dialog are owned by the OS Library, not the individual >>>>>>>> applications. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Therefore, the installer will use 100% the same settings as the web >>>>>>>> browser, including the same protocol. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, as I stated, if the browser can download foo.exe, so will the >>>>>>>> online >>>>>>>> installer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> Alex Ionescu >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2011-06-03, at 1:50 PM, Kamil Hornicek wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> whatever you use for downloading the installer has to be configured >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> connect throught the proxy and also to use its dns services for >>>>>>>>> host name >>>>>>>>> resolving. if the installer itself isn't aware of the need for >>>>>>>>> proxy server >>>>>>>>> (or is not able to connect through socks or whatever the proxy >>>>>>>>> uses) it >>>>>>>>> won't be usually able to resolve the hostname it's trying to >>>>>>>>> connect to >>>>>>>>> (depends on the exact network configuration). also the default >>>>>>>>> route to the >>>>>>>>> internet would be missing or direct outgoing connections would be >>>>>>>>> blocked >>>>>>>>> (which they usually are otherwise you wouldn't be forced to use the >>>>>>>>> proxy >>>>>>>>> server in the first place) so the traffic generated by the >>>>>>>>> installer >>>>>>>>> wouldn't have any means to reach its destination. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I didn't want to derail the discussion and I apologize for that. >>>>>>>>> I'll >>>>>>>>> shut up next time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kamil >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Ionescu" < >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> To: "ReactOS Development List" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 7:03 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] 1294 [dreimer] Fix clean for cmake trees. >>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Since online installers use HTTP, and the user got the installer >>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> HTTP, what would a proxy server change? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> Alex Ionescu >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2011-06-03, at 12:33 PM, Kamil Hornicek wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I didn't want to spam this discussion but I have to.. What every >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> other software company also does is refusing to believe someone >>>>>>>>>>> might be >>>>>>>>>>> behind a proxy server. If you go this way, please make sure the >>>>>>>>>>> installer >>>>>>>>>>> doesn't need a direct connection. Also online installers are >>>>>>>>>>> generally a >>>>>>>>>>> major pain in the ass if you don't provide an offline installer >>>>>>>>>>> too. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Ionescu >>>>>>>>>>> To: ReactOS Development List >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 5:56 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] 1294 [dreimer] Fix clean for cmake trees. >>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Why separate installers for x64/ARM? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just do what every software company this side of the century >>>>>>>>>>> does: a >>>>>>>>>>> 400kb installer which lets you select the packages you want, and >>>>>>>>>>> downloads >>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Alex Ionescu >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2011-06-03, at 11:38 AM, Zachary Gorden wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Spoke with Amine and Daniel. I've agreed to the lesser evil of >>>>>>>>>>> bundling the FULL cmake. Reasons are if we want the BE to be >>>>>>>>>>> flexible >>>>>>>>>>> enough to be used for more than just building ROS, we can't gimp >>>>>>>>>>> cmake with >>>>>>>>>>> the belief that no one will need the things we didn't include. >>>>>>>>>>> This is again >>>>>>>>>>> on Windows. I remain uninvolved with decisions about the Linux >>>>>>>>>>> BE. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:34 AM, Colin Finck <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Timo Kreuzer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My vote on this: >>>>>>>>>>> CMake: bundle it, optional on installation >>>>>>>>>>> x64/arm: create individual installers >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * CMake: bundle it, go for the (minimal) version without an >>>>>>>>>>> installer. It's nothing "exotic" to install after all, just put >>>>>>>>>>> it together >>>>>>>>>>> with the other utilities in RosBE. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * x64/arm: If build tool sizes are staying like this, create >>>>>>>>>>> individual installers. Just for testing, I'll try an x86/x64 >>>>>>>>>>> multilib build >>>>>>>>>>> of Binutils and GCC though, would be nice to know how much >>>>>>>>>>> smaller it is >>>>>>>>>>> compared to separate x86 and x64 compilers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So in general, I agree with Timo :-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - Colin >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ros-dev mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ros-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ros-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >> > > > -- > Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > _______________________________________________ > Ros-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >
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