I think I agree with Colin on that.
I personally remember some people who said something like «meh… C89». You can
try to change my mind though, if you can answer two questions:
* How can we attract new experienced developers who prefer new C standards
while still conforming to C89?
* How can we make 3rd party modules maintenance to have less overhead while
still having support for MSVC2010?
Seriously regarding self-hosting I think we should focus on NT6+
application compatibility shims to support newer MS CL compilers.
>Thursday, 26 November 2020, 11:28 +03:00 from Colin Finck <co...@reactos.org>:
>
>Am 25.11.2020 um 22:26 schrieb Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO:
>> What about that discussion about why we have ditched out MSVC 2010 support
>You mean reintroducing an ancient compiler that forces us to hack around
>its incapacity to deal with anything more modern than C89? One that
>already makes it harder to import third-party components and attract new
>developers?
>
>Let's face it, we already make our incredible job of writing a
>Windows-compatible operating system even harder than Microsoft's - by
>supporting both GCC and MSVC. We spend enormous amounts of time to just
>get the basics right for both toolchains, and still fail at things like
>the C++ standard library. Ditching MSVC 2010 finally paves the way for
>importing a modern and trusted third-party C++ library like Clang's
>libc++ to replace our hacked and unmaintained stlport. Going even
>further, we could finally draw from the huge pool of talented C++
>developers, who leverage the benefits of C++11 and beyond. Think about
>that next time you debug a memory leak or a deadlock that would have
>been impossible through std::unique_ptr or std::mutex.
>
>This project won't ever become usable in a lifetime if we don't go with
>the time but stick to old habits forever. There is no inherent value in
>supporting old compilers, just wasted developer time.
>And don't tell me about self-hosting: It's not like anybody productively
>uses ReactOS for building ReactOS right now. If you just want to
>demonstrate that, use the RosBE GCC-based toolchain. I already spent
>hours on backporting that back to ReactOS/Windows XP...
>
>
>Now I usually would have put that on the agenda for the meeting and
>asked for a vote.
>But as this year's ditching of MSVC 2010 is just the implementation of a
>meeting decision from 2 years ago
>( https://reactos.org/project-news/december-2018-meeting-minutes/ ),
>meeting votes are apparently not considered binding here. Neither is
>apparently the discussion we had in the related PR
>https://github.com/reactos/reactos/pull/2658 .
>
>
>So let's have an open discussion and voting process right here on the
>mailing list for everyone to see, to decide this once and for all!
>Just reply to this mail, tell about your reasons - and more importantly
>tell whether you support or reject dropping MSVC 2010 support.
>
>Votes by CORE REACTOS MEMBERS are then counted on 1ST JANUARY 2021.
>
>
>At this point, it should be obvious that I myself SUPPORT the decision
>to ditch building ReactOS with MSVC 2010.
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>Colin
>
>
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>
--
Stanislav Motylkov
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