Chris & Chuck & All, IMHO, scale is a relative term. When original vintage Flyer was invented, manufactured and sold, it was considered state-of-the-art scale insofar as toy trains were concerned. Not anymore. Now it's "tinplate" (in the derogatory sense) in some people's eyes. Scale is now state-of-the-art S-Helper, American Models, etc for toy trains. Who knows what this gen of scale will be considered in the future and what the next gen of scale will be like in terms of proportions, detail and operating quality. One could think we have arrived at a terminal point already with scale, but that's what they may have thought about Flyer in the 50's.
Tim Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Zizzo To: slist Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 9:35 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: New Flyonel Chuck points out: >I have a Lionel trailer next to me. It measures >1.75" in width. That translates to 9' 4" in the real world. Real >highway semi trailers are not allowed to exceed 8' 6" in width. . . . >the excess width sticks out badly, especially when parked >next to a properly scaled trailer by any one of several makers of >1/64th scale trucks (ERTL, PEM/Hartoy, SpecCast, Penjoy, Winross. . . Chuck: Are you a scaler? If you are an accurate scale type modeler, then I would agree with your assessment. For me, this attention to detail is a form of rivet counting. I am a hi-railer, which means I incorporate toy trains and related items into a detailed, nicely scaled world, but I don't get that picky about it. That's why I don't mind those unrealistic edge details on WinRoss' otherwise bland and undetailed trailers. It's also why I tolerate truncated passenger cars and American Flyer knuckle couplers that would be as big as a truck engine in real life, and gaps between cars that no diaphragm could ever fill and link couplers and track radii that would be too tight for a trolley and Plasticville and diesel sounds that come out of only the B unit and what else? Make a list and it will exceed your ISP's allowable mail message size. In 0-Gauge, an 8 foot trailer would have to be 2" wide. 1.75 inches is a 7 foot wide trailer. As you pointed out, in S-Gauge, 1.75" is 9.3 feet. An eight footer should be 1.5 inches. A forensic answer would look at Lionel, a toy company, who is attempting to save on tooling by finding a middle ground and bridging it with a single product, 1/4" small for 0, 1/4" big for S. That means they had S-Gauge in mind when they built it. I am seeing a lot of anger expressed here at Lionel for choices they have made in production. Most of this stems from two sources, I think. At the heart of the matter is a feeling that we live in occupied France; that our beloved trademark is in the hands of the enemy. This is a sore that will never heal. Big L can never do anything right in the hearts and minds of those who feel most strongly of this. Secondly, there is a more practical, less emotional matter. There is choice in the S-Gauge world. Even in hi-rail, there are accurately scaled items available now that make ALL Flyer pale in comparison. I have been bitten by this scale bug too. I like it, a lot. But, in reflection, I have not forgotten my toy train roots, and I still have interests there. You cannot be angry at Lionel for making toys. They are a toy company. They are a big company trying to cut costs and make financially smart decisions regarding tooling and production. Because they are not hobbiests on a mission to provide the most accurate models, but rather are business people on a mission to return profits to their investors, there are going to be compromises. If your interests have turned to accurate scale, then Flyonel is not for you. No need to get emotional about it. You have just moved on. If you intend to buy Flyonel, then you MUST accept it for what it is. Flyer has NEVER been accurate scale model trains; not in 1946, not now. They have always been close, but never perfect. 1.75 inches is close enough for me. Chris Zizzo S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the Flyer you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
